Galvanised WW1 Mills body

[gothica7]

I have had this No 5 or 23/1 Mills body for very many years. Looks like its been galvanised and therefore may have been used for training purposes and in fact looks very similar to the coating given to Gibbons Spring training grenades. Most certainly not shellac and I cant think why it would have been so coated as a standard non-returnable body would not have had the money or time spent on it.If I was so inclined it would be very easy to convert into a full Gibbons Spring Training grenade, the springs are readily available on ebay now.It has been a very useful body in that when I was selling Mills grenade parts 10/15 years ago it was my testing body. Every part I sold was first tried out and fitted to this body to see if they worked or the threads were ok and there were vast numbers as they went all over the world, even to Iceland, Israel and Japan. Its been very well handled and done a great job over the years and I never had a single complaint.



Andy.

 

[millsbomber]

Think that's the same coating as the Gibbons spring trainers I have a No36 Mk1 with that coating HE not a trainer ......mDave

 

[siegfreid]

Andy . I've also had 36's with a galvanised finish but was led to believe they were probably for training . As a separate fact , they also used nickel plating on trainers , not to be confused with the chrome presentation ones you see . Have a good Xmas ! Mike

 

[Millsman]

Andy

I tend to agree with Dave on this example. Production Gibbons No 23 Mk III and 36Ms seem to have a strange green galvanisation, different to what was put on the Gibbons Spring No 23 Mk IIs

I've also had a nickel plated No 5 which was a trainer from 1916.

I wonder if this one was due to be made into a Spring training 23 but was 'borrowed' off the production line as a souvenir??

 

[gothica7]

I think both you and Dave are correct an i too would like to bet it was nicked from the production line as its never been thrown as the body is unblemished, also marked on the back with an H as is often the case with Gibbon Spring 23.11s Still tempted to convert it, maybe one day. .Happy Christmas all.

Andy.

 

[gothica7]

I remembered I had this in my collection, a drill No 36 MK 1 this time marked J Gibbons Wolverhampton which also shows some galvanising although it obviously has less showing being well handled possibly during both Wars.Plug not original, a very nice Kenricks dated 10/18.


Andy

 

[Millsman]

View attachment 157111View attachment 157112I remembered I had this in my collection, a drill No 36 MK 1 this time marked J Gibbons Wolverhampton which also shows some galvanising although it obviously has less showing being well handled possibly during both Wars.Plug not original, a very nice Kenricks dated 10/18.


Andy

Clearly a WW1 body updated in the 1920's with the training holes. I've got a couple of good Gibbons with the greenish treatment. I'll try and do a photo tomorrow.

 

[siegfreid]

I see I'm outnumbered 3 to 1 . All I can say is the last 1918 dated No 36 with a galvanised body I had came from the collection of a respected collector who is a prolific contributor to this site & it had his label attached stating it to be a WW1 No 36 training grenade . Unless someone can show me one with its painted bands or the remains thereof or documentary evidence that galvanised finish bodies were used for live production grenades , I'm sticking to my theory . I will , of course , be glad to be proved wrong ! Mike

 

[gothica7]

Clearly a WW1 body updated in the 1920's with the training holes. I've got a couple of good Gibbons with the greenish treatment. I'll try and do a photo tomorrow.

John, I believe the 5 'drill' holes became regulation issue in 1936.


Andy

 

[millsbomber]

I see I'm outnumbered 3 to 1 . All I can say is the last 1918 dated No 36 with a galvanised body I had came from the collection of a respected collector who is a prolific contributor to this site & it had his label attached stating it to be a WW1 No 36 training grenade . Unless someone can show me one with its painted bands or the remains thereof or documentary evidence that galvanised finish bodies were used for live production grenades , I'm sticking to my theory . I will , of course , be glad to be proved wrong ! Mike

My mistake,,,,, Mike is correct and i read the Lable incorrectly ........ Dave

 

[siegfreid]

My mistake,,,,, Mike is correct and i read the Lable incorrectly ........ Dave

Thanks Dave . I just checked with the guru on this subject & if it's plated with any finish , it's a trainer . If you think about it , why go to the expense of electroplating a grenade that's destined to be blown to smithereens soon ! They plated trainers because they could possibly be used for years & suffer mishandling & storage in poor conditions . Mike

 

[millsbomber]

Yes Mike for sure, i miss read the Guru's description on a No23 MkIII i have with a label attached my mind missing out the word practice...... Dave

Sorry every one

 

[gothica7]

Thanks Dave . I just checked with the guru on this subject & if it's plated with any finish , it's a trainer . If you think about it , why go to the expense of electroplating a grenade that's destined to be blown to smithereens soon ! They plated trainers because they could possibly be used for years & suffer mishandling & storage in poor conditions . Mike

Its what I suggested in my initial post that they wouldnt spend extra cash on disposable items, not logical as Spock would have said. Tell the guru say something himself if he has the manners.
There is no need for this childishness.




Andy

 

[siegfreid]

Bit harsh Andy . The man hadn't even read the post & was just replying to my email inquiry . Mike

 

[Millsman]

Nothing to get het up about guys. I think in this case everyone is right so far but there is a gap in our knowledge about Gibbons that causes some different positions to appear.

I'll post a photo later which will explain my point.

John

 

[Millsman]

Here's a couple of photos that I hope will explain my point.

First is a Gibbons 23 Mk I spring trainer with the 'normal' light zinc plating. With it is a Gibbons 23 Mk III Spring trainer which has a distinct grey / green coating. The photo does not show it but it is greener than it looks.




The key point is that in the last 3 years I have had two Gibbons (JGW) Mills 36MI from 1918 that both had the same greenish coating. They were both operational grenades, not trainers. The grenades both had all matching marks so were seemingly untouched since 1918. Sadly I've sold them both but the shade of green/grey was only a fraction lighter than the No 23 MkIII spring grenade.

I've also got a CAV No 5 which has a slight green tinge to it. It doesn't show up on the photo but is there.



So I think Gibbons were certainly coating some of their operational bodies with something perhaps they were diverted from the Spring trainer production line or at some stage all their bodies got the same treatment?

With the Mills its always what we don't know that keeps us going.

 

[siegfreid]

John . What makes you think they were "operational" grenades ? There's not a jot of difference between one meant for HE filling & a practice or training grenade . They are exactly the same apart from the finish . Did your ones have their coloured bands applied to show they were once HE filled ? Mike

 

[Millsman]

John . What makes you think they were "operational" grenades ? There's not a jot of difference between one meant for HE filling & a practice or training grenade . They are exactly the same apart from the finish . Did your ones have their coloured bands applied to show they were once HE filled ? Mike

No, you are right there Mike but like many of these things, I'm sure much of the 'mint' stuff that we see in the militaria market never got to be filled and were probably souvenired by factory workers to be given to friends and relatives.

I would say they were made to operational spec and did not appear to have been used for training. They were pretty well mint. But I'd say that but there no guarantee they ever got to a filling factory or even into a crate.

 

[siegfreid]

John . Would it not be equally likely that workers at the electro-zincing [actual term used in the documents] plant would have also taken some as souvenirs ? Mike

 

[Millsman]

John . Would it not be equally likely that workers at the electro-zincing [actual term used in the documents] plant would have also taken some as souvenirs ? Mike

Mike

I think that is entirely possible. We can't go back 100 years and see what was happening in factories but I suspect that at the end of the war (to end all wars) there was a feeling that 'this stuff won't be used again' so a lot was taken by factory workers. It's the only conclusion I can come to for much of the quality items still around.

When items went out of production or were scrapped (as with the No 19) there were probably many opportunities to have a momento of the war.

In many cases we will never know and are left with the 'official' version of events to ponder.

Happy Christmas to all. Have a good day.

John