German 7.7cm Schrapnell 96 ??

[MINENAZ16]

Hi,

I found an empty shrapnel shell with strange base ; two driving band : first missing (maybe made of zinc), second made of copper.
Length : 230mm (without head)
This shell looks like a German 7.7cm F Schr. 1896 umg with a different base.
I know three : F. Schr. 1896, F. Schr. 1896 n/a, F. Schr 1896 Umg.
My documentation said that Umg model can have a base with 2 driving band. Does anyone has ever seen a shell of this type ?
I tried to place a Umg screwed head and it works.
Thanks.



Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

I find a complete (filled) shell and now I'm sure It's a 7.7cm Schr. 96 umg modified with two driving bands for the first short case (Gun Mod 96).

Cheers.


Head of 7.7cm Schr96 Umg screwed on the top of the empty shell shown above :

 

[silent knight]

Bonjour,

can you give me the dimension of the two driving bands and their height from the bottom of the shell.

Merci d'avance
Pascal

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello Pascal,

I'm sure you want to make a nice drawing of this shell, isn't it ?

I'll take the measurements before the weekend

Cheers

 

[silent knight]

Yes, you're right :tinysmile_twink_t2:

 

[hicky1300]

Minenaz - ~If you want any 7.7 cases I have a few spare!!?

 

[MINENAZ16]

Minenaz - ~If you want any 7.7 cases I have a few spare!!?

No thank you.

 

[ulaire]

This is a Feld Schrapnel 1916 Umg. 18, which was only used at the very end of the war (hence the ersatz zinc driving band).
It was fired by the FK-16, which used separate shells and casings, thats why the copper driving band is so near to the bottom of the projectile. That was not possible with the fixed munition of the FK-96 N/A.

 

[Alpini]

That would be a good explanation. Do you have written german sources mentioning this shell? I am asking because the ammunition manual for the F.K.16 printed in April 1918 only mentions the Feldschrapnell 96 (umg.) with zinc+copper driving band.

But I also can't imagine that they started making ammunition for the obsolete F.K.96 at near to the end of WW1.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Very nice guys, we are progressing

 

[Alpini]

I also wonder because with all other 7,7 cm shells the strategy was to have compatible shells for both guns to gain better optimized ammunition logistics, really strange. I don't know the numbers but I guess there were many hundreds of F.K.96 n/A left at the end of 1st WW.

 

[dano1917]

The 77mm shells - fused by Dopp Z96 - and Doppz96n/A are a very classic WWI shell...Dano

 

[silent knight]

I also wonder because with all other 7,7 cm shells the strategy was to have compatible shells for both guns to gain better optimized ammunition logistics, really strange. I don't know the numbers but I guess there were many hundreds of F.K.96 n/A left at the end of 1st WW.

What would imply that the copper driving band should be at about 26mm from the bottom of the shell like for the 7,7 cm K. Gr. 16. and not 13mm

 

[Alpini]

and at first the shell would need crimp grooves to be compatible with the 96 n/A. I don't know about separate loading ammunition for the F.K.96 n/A

 

[doctor]

Hi
I think this shell was used in FK c96 original and not FK96n/A

 

[silent knight]

and at first the shell would need crimp grooves to be compatible with the 96 n/A. I don't know about separate loading ammunition for the F.K.96 n/A

Not necessarily, I think that the 7,7 cm K.Gr.16 for exemple could be used in the FK. 96 n/A with the non grooved cartridge case of the FK. 16 as fixed ammunition.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello Pascal,

Mine has exactly the same dimensions.

Cheers.

 

[Alpini]

Not necessarily, I think that the 7,7 cm K.Gr.16 for exemple could be used in the FK. 96 n/A with the non grooved cartridge case of the FK. 16 as fixed ammunition.

The ammunition manual for the 96 n/A shows the K.Gr.16 used in a cartridge and not as separate ammunition. For which purpose the K.Gr.16 has crimp grooves if not for a F.K. 96 n/A cartridge.

 

[doctor]

Hi
The primary 7.7cm C 96 gun used a separate loading I thing with short case and be modified after with the light long case for 7.7cm 96n/A....and you explain the story after about guns and cases

 

[silent knight]

@Alpini: it seems there are two versions of the K. Gr. 16