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German Stick Grenade End Caps WWI & After
- Thread starter ozziammo
- Start date
MG34NZ
Well-Known Member
Hi Ozzi,
The Cap is dead wrong for this model grenade it also appears the handle is missing the metal thread for the cap to screw onto.
The stenciled instructions on the head is redone ,the remainder on the head looks ok without a closer inspection but is a bit concerning as the cap and stenciling are fiddled with.
Original threads and caps can be found with a bit of patience
Is it one you are looking at to buy or one you have?
Regards
MG34NZ
The Cap is dead wrong for this model grenade it also appears the handle is missing the metal thread for the cap to screw onto.
The stenciled instructions on the head is redone ,the remainder on the head looks ok without a closer inspection but is a bit concerning as the cap and stenciling are fiddled with.
Original threads and caps can be found with a bit of patience
Is it one you are looking at to buy or one you have?
Regards
MG34NZ
waffenamt
Well-Known Member
Hmm?,im sure that the `star` shaped cap was used in ww1 as a pal got some from France(verdun area).
Also,ive read somewhere that the same shape cap was re-introduced for use on the Russian front in ww2.The shape of the cap enabled use whilst wearing thick gloves.
cheers
waff
Also,ive read somewhere that the same shape cap was re-introduced for use on the Russian front in ww2.The shape of the cap enabled use whilst wearing thick gloves.
cheers
waff
MG34NZ
Well-Known Member
Winter cap
Hi Waff, Heres the winter caps , the thread is slightly different to the WWI grenades and wont screw on easly where the fit on the M24 thread is nice.
They are very similar in design to the cap fitted to late WWI model 1917 grenades. I have one that is D.R.G.M marked and have also seen them WaA stamped...sadly I dont have a WaA example ...but if some one has a spare...drop me a line.
Hi Waff, Heres the winter caps , the thread is slightly different to the WWI grenades and wont screw on easly where the fit on the M24 thread is nice.
They are very similar in design to the cap fitted to late WWI model 1917 grenades. I have one that is D.R.G.M marked and have also seen them WaA stamped...sadly I dont have a WaA example ...but if some one has a spare...drop me a line.
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jeeeensy
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Vor Gerbuach Sprenkapsel Einsezten was usually rolled using a stamp with a quick drying ink , not stenciled :tinysmile_angry_t:
Other than that It is quite clean and sound. I would be tempted to see if the stenciling will come of without messing up paint underneath, depends on type of paint or ink used, Any ideas chaps ?
Tmine35 will be your best bet for bottom caps and thread if needed. I have bought the odd one or myself now n then from Tmine :tinysmile_hmm_t:
Regards
Nick
Vor Gerbuach Sprenkapsel Einsezten was usually rolled using a stamp with a quick drying ink , not stenciled :tinysmile_angry_t:
Other than that It is quite clean and sound. I would be tempted to see if the stenciling will come of without messing up paint underneath, depends on type of paint or ink used, Any ideas chaps ?
Tmine35 will be your best bet for bottom caps and thread if needed. I have bought the odd one or myself now n then from Tmine :tinysmile_hmm_t:
Regards
Nick
Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
Hi:
In pre and early war grenades you can find your cap and the evolution showed by MG34NZ. Also I never have believed in the "Winter Caps" theory. I have seen many grenades found in Russia, I have a few in my collection, and never with these caps, always with the standard plain round ones. So, I think that they are just the evolution from WWI cap to WWII standard cap. Look pics attached, please.
If you could remove the white stenciled words without damage the original green paint you would get a very nice early second model, (without letters), 1940 grenade, in this year the Germans stop on print the "Vor Gebrauch...." on the cans.
Miguel A.J.
In pre and early war grenades you can find your cap and the evolution showed by MG34NZ. Also I never have believed in the "Winter Caps" theory. I have seen many grenades found in Russia, I have a few in my collection, and never with these caps, always with the standard plain round ones. So, I think that they are just the evolution from WWI cap to WWII standard cap. Look pics attached, please.
If you could remove the white stenciled words without damage the original green paint you would get a very nice early second model, (without letters), 1940 grenade, in this year the Germans stop on print the "Vor Gebrauch...." on the cans.
Miguel A.J.
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Found this drawing of German hand grenade in a Finnish hand grenade manual dated 1926. There also was a drawing of another model with "normal" WW1 cap.
At the date of this manual our army had WW1 surplus grenades, so these were no post war supply from Germany.:tinysmile_shy_t:
At the date of this manual our army had WW1 surplus grenades, so these were no post war supply from Germany.:tinysmile_shy_t:
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Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
Ahhh, Finland, what a great country.... nice people, nice girls, nice land, nice grenades....:flowers: This reinforce my theory that the "Winter Caps" never existed. In your drawing can see the next step on the evolution of the winged cap, now it is made of one piece, instead of the two pieces WWI one.
MG34NZ
Well-Known Member
Wiinter Caps again....
the early German grenade manuals also depict this type of cap, so I fully agree that these caps were standard fittment early in the introduction of the M24.However the theory that they were uterlised as a winter aid can not be dismissed just yet, I would be interested to know how the caps have been found, were they found in bulk or were they found in place on the handles of grenades? Or discarded during combat and scattered around? If they have been found in bulk or packaged it could indicate they were intended for distribution and use, this is just a theory so if you have found some of these caps how did you find them??
The ones I have had came frome one source found in the Ukraine, all were in great condition and if they came off recently found grenades they show no evidence of being unscrewed and by the condition of the caps the grenades themselves would have been excellent and removing the cap from its original handle/grenade would be crazy.
Its great to have some discussion on the subject stick grenades as there is a lot we can all learn from this.
Best Regards
MG34NZ
the early German grenade manuals also depict this type of cap, so I fully agree that these caps were standard fittment early in the introduction of the M24.However the theory that they were uterlised as a winter aid can not be dismissed just yet, I would be interested to know how the caps have been found, were they found in bulk or were they found in place on the handles of grenades? Or discarded during combat and scattered around? If they have been found in bulk or packaged it could indicate they were intended for distribution and use, this is just a theory so if you have found some of these caps how did you find them??
The ones I have had came frome one source found in the Ukraine, all were in great condition and if they came off recently found grenades they show no evidence of being unscrewed and by the condition of the caps the grenades themselves would have been excellent and removing the cap from its original handle/grenade would be crazy.
Its great to have some discussion on the subject stick grenades as there is a lot we can all learn from this.
Best Regards
MG34NZ
Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
The ones I have had came frome one source found in the Ukraine, all were in great condition....
Best Regards
MG34NZ[/quote]
Always that I saw these caps have been at the Ciney fair and from one ebay seller that I believe from Poland. At Ciney, (Belgium), you can find the WWI caps and the second variation you show in big quantities and from two or three French sellers. All have the same aspect, you know, if they had been found in the same place/area. Also the Polish ebay seller always have the WWI, second variation DRGM and standard first model zinc cap for sell when he lists auctions. Why? Poland was the first country on be invaded in 1939, all the old stocks that survived to WWI and prewar grenades were used there. A part of Ukraine fight against Russians as Austro-Hungarian Empire at the WWI. If these caps were found by hundreds by the Russian diggers or in the Ardennes fields I would believe in the "Winter Caps", but non of these two things has happened. And our Finnish friend know perfectly what caps can be found in his country. :tinysmile_twink_t:
Also, if you try to unscrew a standard cap with gloves it came off very easy.
Best Regards
MG34NZ[/quote]
Always that I saw these caps have been at the Ciney fair and from one ebay seller that I believe from Poland. At Ciney, (Belgium), you can find the WWI caps and the second variation you show in big quantities and from two or three French sellers. All have the same aspect, you know, if they had been found in the same place/area. Also the Polish ebay seller always have the WWI, second variation DRGM and standard first model zinc cap for sell when he lists auctions. Why? Poland was the first country on be invaded in 1939, all the old stocks that survived to WWI and prewar grenades were used there. A part of Ukraine fight against Russians as Austro-Hungarian Empire at the WWI. If these caps were found by hundreds by the Russian diggers or in the Ardennes fields I would believe in the "Winter Caps", but non of these two things has happened. And our Finnish friend know perfectly what caps can be found in his country. :tinysmile_twink_t:
Also, if you try to unscrew a standard cap with gloves it came off very easy.
Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
Many thanks Grenadier, your two pics are a really treasure and they make more clear my theory of the "Evolution Caps" against the "Winter Caps" one. Look pics above of one of my "second step evolution cap" deeper for to lodge the new springled cardboard disc. The WWI and DRGM caps had only a plain cardboard disc as later in WWII. Next evoution step would be the standard round cap.
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MG34NZ
Well-Known Member
Miguel your evolutionry theory is indeed sound and as stated before I am in no doubt of this :beer:. Does anyone have an actual grenade ( M24 ) with the cap as original fittiment? or a period photo of the grenades with the caps in use? My guess is that they would be on the grenades with the metal loop attatched to the head.
It would be interesting to see some of these examples as all that I have seen is line drawings to date.
Regards
Andrew MG34NZ
It would be interesting to see some of these examples as all that I have seen is line drawings to date.
Regards
Andrew MG34NZ
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Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have an actual grenade ( M24 ) with the cap as original fittiment? or a period photo of the grenades with the caps in use? My guess is that they would be on the grenades with the metal loop attatched to the head.
Dear Andrew:
Call me silly, but I cant understand what you want to mean. :dontknow:
Dear Andrew:
Call me silly, but I cant understand what you want to mean. :dontknow:
Grenadier
Well-Known Member
StHgr.24 originally fitted with that cap, or war picture of these hgrenades (probably of the type with the belt clip on the body) :nerd:
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MG34NZ
Well-Known Member
:top::top::top: Thats what I was meaning.
I would love to see pictures of the early M24s
Regards
Andrew MG34NZ
Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
A thing is clear: the winged cap has the eagle of Weimar Rep. 1919-1933, 8 years before the Operation Barbarossa. If I find one of these winged caps with the Nazi eagle, (with Svastica), then would be different. But I never have seen one and I think that I will never see one cause when the Nazis arrived the caps already were rounds. You can see it looking the two round caps with Weimar and Nazi eagles. Also these stamps, (eagle), are not uncommon on zinc caps, but when caps and thread sleeves changed from zinc to steel they are very rare.
And more: here in the Spanish Civil War battlefields are common to find the WWI caps, a friend of mine who has a very big collection of grenades from our CW, have a totally original M24 from 1936 and it comes with the standard cap.
And looking my WWII pics I thought another thing: German soldiers commonly carry the grenades through their belts as in the pics below, with a winged caps would be very difficult to take off the grenade fast.
And more: here in the Spanish Civil War battlefields are common to find the WWI caps, a friend of mine who has a very big collection of grenades from our CW, have a totally original M24 from 1936 and it comes with the standard cap.
And looking my WWII pics I thought another thing: German soldiers commonly carry the grenades through their belts as in the pics below, with a winged caps would be very difficult to take off the grenade fast.
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