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German WW2 uranium-cored ammo?

T

Tony Williams

Well-Known Member
IIRC, Speer's autobiography stated something to the effect that with the end of the German atomic bomb programme, 1200 tons of uranium ore was made available to replace wolfram (tungsten) in sub-calibre anti-tank gun ammo, because the wolfram was needed to make machine tools. Whether any such ammunition was actually made remains the subject of controversy. Several years ago I recall hearing that a PzGr.40 anti-tank gun projectile (5cm I think) had been found which was radioactive.

Does anyone have any firm information about this, one way or the other?
 
Hello Tony,

As far as I know, there are only rumours and discussions on several ammo/WWII related sites, to date no documents/manuals/factory drawings have surfaced which confirm the use of uranium in German WWII ammo, that I know of.
In my opinion, iff uranium was used, there (even given the late time in the war) must have been both documentation regarding manufacturing and safety meassures (the use of uramiun would have been something quite radical for the time, I can't imagine the very "punktliche" Germans not writing about it) and the memories of surviving factory staff/employees.

Just my two cents,

Regards,

Menno.
 
Lots of stuff the allies captured is still classified like the Ohrdruff reports (including nuke material there).

Also the Germans used other radioactive materials without particular concern like the "Tarnsand" which was "camauflage sand" which was placed around metal free mines to be able to detect them later. Guess with what? Yes, Geiger counters! I just do not know how far it was used in the late war.
 
The Germans would have had no qualms about using toxic or radioactive
materials against the "barbarians" on the eastern front; they may have
hesitated about using it against the "civilized" people in the west.
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Pretty weak argument. Back in the days, uranium wasn't considered as such a dangerous and radioactive material as today. The radioactivity was known, but was rendered (with some justification) as negligible. (Tons of uranium were used for consumer products such as enamel paint). They also knew that it was toxic, but this was concerned only when it came to the soluble uranium salts. Otherwise, uranium was treated in no different way than any other toxic heavy metal, such as lead or cadmium. BTW: Most military explosives are very nasty poisons, too.
 
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Uranium metal , as mined , is only very slightly radioactive & not as dense as Tungsten [although heavier] . The stuff available to the Germans in WW2 would have been nothing like the DU used in modern projectiles as this is a by-product of nuclear reactors & contains different isotopes . I can only think that the Germans used Uranium as a substitute when they ran out of Tungsten towards the end . There's no particular benefit in the AP properties but Uranium is actually easier to machine .
 
The Germans were experimenting with Uranium Carbide very early in the war, for what purpose I don't know. Krupp submitted a report in 1942 as to the use of uranium carbide instead of tungsten carbide for the nose of A.P. projectiles.

TimG
 
Dave . They would n't help much with commercially mined Uranium . They're designed , normally , to detect Gamma radiation & normal Uranium emits Alpha radiation ! Mike.
 
siegfreid said:
Dave . They would n't help much with commercially mined Uranium . They're designed , normally , to detect Gamma radiation & normal Uranium emits Alpha radiation ! Mike.
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Thats right. But, although Uranium emits apha particles, there are always some decay products present. Most notably radium, which emmits beta and gamma radiation, too.

I had once a chance to test my geiger counter (a professional high-end model, not some surplus military device) on a sample of uranium metal. Almost no reading. Just quite a weak rise above background. On the other hand, it went like crazy on the sample of uranyl acetate:p
 
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TimG said:
The Germans were experimenting with Uranium Carbide very early in the war, for what purpose I don't know. Krupp submitted a report in 1942 as to the use of uranium carbide instead of tungsten carbide for the nose of A.P. projectiles.

TimG[/QUOTE

Tim . Same reason . A substitute for Tungsten Carbide as they must have realised that their sources of Tungsten were vulnerable & Uranium was not as difficult to get . Mike.
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Songun 4.25 said:
Pretty weak argument. Back in the days, uranium wasn't considered as such a dangerous and radioactive material as today. The radioactivity was known, but was rendered (with some justification) as negligible. (Tons of uranium were used for consumer products such as enamel paint). They also knew that it was toxic, but this was concerned only when it came to the soluble uranium salts. Otherwise, uranium was treated in no different way than any other toxic heavy metal, such as lead or cadmium. BTW: Most military explosives are very nasty poisons, too.
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I agree, those days they even had radioactive tooth paste and advertised it!
 
siegfreid said:
TimG said:
The Germans were experimenting with Uranium Carbide very early in the war, for what purpose I don't know. Krupp submitted a report in 1942 as to the use of uranium carbide instead of tungsten carbide for the nose of A.P. projectiles.

TimG[/QUOTE

Tim . Same reason . A substitute for Tungsten Carbide as they must have realised that their sources of Tungsten were vulnerable & Uranium was not as difficult to get . Mike.
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Yes, they lost their sole supplier of Tungsten when the Allies influenced Spain to stop it's deliveries of ore so they had to seek replacements. Seems it finally resulted in hardened steel cores in the very end.
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I really hate to necropost but it doesn't make sense to make a new thread just to ask if there has been any further research or information in this area.
My friend wrote this piece on 'Uran' rounds http://ftr-wot.blogspot.it/2013/05/solving-historical-mistery-help-required.html back in 2013.

In "Dictionary of Explosives Ammunition and Weapons (German) by Basil Federoff in 1958 he has a large section on sabot round but no mention of Uranium rounds. The closest was one with a sintered Tungsten core to penetrate armour and then spray fine fragments into a tank.
 

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