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Good day everyone, I was hoping for some help identifying this

Ammo Rob

Ammo Rob

Well-Known Member
Ordnance approved
The weight is 20 pounds, height is approx 9 inches and the width of the base is just under 3.5 inches across. After speaking with one of my colleagues we think it may be a 25 pound AP round but I would appreciate any assistance you members can provide. Thank you.

I have also included a drawing illustrating some of the text I could make out. There is more but there is too much rust.

30acoyt.jpg


140vgut.jpg


2qib4he.jpg
 
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Most likely a 25 Pdr AP-Shot-T projo (3.45 inch diameter). These are usually more rare than the HE and Chem projos, at least here in the States.
 
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You are most welcome! The 25 Pdr is usually used as a howitzer, but if the enemy gets too close, a limited number of Armor Piercing projos were produced for direct fire against armor and vehicles. The Germans had AP projos for all of their Antiaircraft guns for the same reason.
 
25 pdr practice

Hi Rob pic attatched of the one that im swapping with another member,if it was a proper Ap they dont rust in the same way due to the make up of the metal,Usually only just surface rust,your is much more corroded.Cheers Tony.
 
A.p. ????

Interesting amount of rust on your projectile Rob, I tend to think too much for an AP projectile unless it has been in a specifically corrosive environment, as Tigbrand says the hardened steel of AP rounds usually remains relatively rust free once is has a surface coating of oxide.

Is it by any chance made of a fairly soft steel ?

The one in the picture was range recovered by a commercial concern and has just been painted with the body still having very clear stamps with only a few small pit marks from rust.
 

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I imagine it has been in the environment since it was fired. It seems very solid IMO. As for what the environment is well Shilo, MB, Canada. Very cold winters (-40 C), hot summers (+30), not humid.
 
My 25 pr ap shot , with most of its original paint
 

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Does it matter the the driving band is different.

edit: should have remembered that
 
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Well, your band is fired, but it looks really close to Tigbrand's. If yours was cleaned up a bit, it would be easier to compare photos.

If you really want to get detailed about it, count the number of grooves on your band and compare to the number that Tigbrand has on his. I have a fired one, but I don't think it has a band.
 
I just can't resist saying "I guess that's why you are on the short bus".

I could never live with myself, if I hadn't said it, sorry.
 
I may be way off here, but I agree that the amount of rust on this..almost makes me think this is a practice round and not AP as they are much harder as mentioned above..and yes Shilo is VERY cold in the winter and warm in the summer, been there, done that and got the T-shirt

My question is how did you get it off the range?...They do tend to be a bit "shy"about letting people take thier "toys"

On th lighter side..a Range Control Officer I know will be clearing up a Grenade Range in the spring....as it has been used since WW1, there tends to be some older Mills parts found there from time to time...he offered to put any aside for me he finds....could be interesting.

Dean
 
Here is a picture of a 25lb AP T shell I have. The base has some corrosion on it.
 

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25pr solid

I have seen on an old WW2 coastal range 25pr solid shot heavily corroded and shell in similar condition fired plugged, so is it possible that there was a solid low grade steel practice shot to rep. the ap proj.? 2pr
 
Shot Practice Tracer

Ammo Rob,
As several people have indicated earlier, your projectile has excessive corrosion which would indicate that it is not AP, but soft material and therefore a Shot Practice Tracer.

Ref: Regulations for Army Ordnance Services Part VIII Pamphlet No. 3 - Marking on Land Service Projectiles for Guns, Howitzers and Mortars.

The following information is indicated by stamping
a. Calibre and numeral
b. Manufacturers initials (or recognized trade mark) and date of manufacture
c. Lot No. of empty projectile
d. G or HR or G&HR - denoting the use of the projectile for gun or howitzer, or both
e. H or L denoting Heavy or Light
f. C.S., F.S., or B.S., denoting that the shell is made of cast steel, or forged steel, or bored from the bar

Ref: Regulations for Army Ordnance Services Vol 4 Ammunition Pamphlet No.7 QF Separate Ammunition Pt 2 QF 25PR GUN/HOW

Shot Practice/T
Shot Practice/T are designed to give the same ballistics as AP/T Shot but are normally made of cast iron. Shot, Practice/T Mk 1 is the only exception, being made of mild steel.
The Mks 1 and 2 Shot are fitted with Internal Tracer No. 2 Mk 7, all other shot being recessed to receive an integral tracer filling which may produce a red or white trace according to the M of F design.

The tables list 5 projectiles:
Shot Practice T Mk 1, made of mild steel with tracer shell No. 2 Mk 7
Shot Practice T Mk 2, made of cast iron with tracer shell No. 2 Mk 7
Shot Practice T Mk 3, made of cast iron, recessed base to accommodate a steel closing plate, shellacked paper disc and celluloid closing cup
Shot Practice T Mk 5, made of cast iron similar to Mk 3 but has a modified tracer cavity
Shot Practice T Mk 8, differs from the Mk 5 in size of tracer cavity.

Based on this information I am assuming your projectile is a 25 Pdr Shot Practice T Mk 1 or Mk 2. I base this on the photo of the base as it looks like there is a lighter metal in the tracer cavity, which would be the tracer shell. The B S on either side of the base indicates bored from the bar, and C-S 55 12 would indicate manufacturers monogram and date of manufacture.

Do you still have access to the projectile? If so, can you clean up the base and see if there are additional markings and if it is actually a tracer shell screwed into the base.

If you are getting rid of the projectile, you can probably guess where you can send it to for it to recieve a good home.
 
Thank you. I think the item is off to Dundurn with a bunch of range scrap I am afraid.
 
Thought I would bump this thread. Ref: Regulations for Army Ordnance Services Vol 4 Ammunition Pamphlet No.7 QF Separate Ammunition Pt 2 QF 25PR GUN/HOW, the Shot/Practice T is made of cast iron and the AP-T shot is forged or bar steel. I have come across another projectile with heavy corrosion which leads me to believe it is a practice shot. To try to determine whether it is cast iron or steel I am aware of two tests. The spark test - grinding the projectile and characteristics of the sparks (colour and pattern) are distinctly different depending on the material. There is also a drill test where the shavings will be small fragments if it is cast iron and long threads if it is steel. Short of damaging the projectile by grinding or drilling, does anyone have any other suggestions on how to determine whether this projectile is practice or AP?
 
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