Help with Russian Mortar Shell Contents

[Castrophia]

Hi there, I have been trying to research a Russian made WW2 TD-42 mortar round I bought from a local WW2 museum (surplus stock) My concern is that although the propellant/fuze are removed, there appears to be a red hard wax like filling inside. Preliminary research indicates that the TD inscription on the side represents 42% TNT, 58% Dinitronaphtalene -- I also read that in cases, the stability of these agents was increased by mixing it with bees wax.

The local man that was selling the ordinance assured me that everything was inert however I wish to make sure. I am hoping it is an inert fill but my concern is that there is a remote possibility that it isn't. Any help would be most appreciated and more pictures can be taken if required.

 

[Castrophia]

 

[Yodamaster]

Who, on BOCN, know the color of TD-42 explosive ?


Yoda

 

[tigbrand]

As far as British ammunition is concerned, I have NEVER seen ORIGINAL markings applied incorrectly, so HE would be just that. HES(HESubstitute) would be marked and colour coded to suit. Your round looks original and the fuze looks to be deactivated. A HE round converted to practice or drill in British service would be marked as such. I see no reason why that would differ in any nation. These types of filling are generally stable but, as always if not empty err on the side of caution and assume to be live. A fellow BOCN member with EOD links might be able to help to prevent the usual panic and blow it up situation, by getting it checked by a competent person. Tig.

 

[pointblank0]

I had a French 120mm mortar that was filled with dark red resin and it looked the same as yours there. Obviously can't confirm though but may put you at rest a bit.

 

[Ivashkin]

Munitions fill by some mixture, which should have the same commo view as original penetration. Like and TNT blocks make of wax+cement.
But after looking on you photos, I have only one picture - how Soviet munition could have latinic marking? It`s impossible!

 

[Yodamaster]

Hum, double circle on the projo and on the fuze with manufacturer code (two numbers) let think it is a bulgarian shell.

22 : Elovitza, Gabrovo
46 : DUNARIT, Ruse

That can probably explain the latin marking.



Yoda

 

[Castrophia]

Tigbrand - Did you see the HE marking on this shell? Or are you saying that if it were an inert substance (poured during manufacture) it wold have the HE/S marking? I cant see such marking on this however it is still early in the morning with no coffee!

 

[tigbrand]

Hi, I was only going on what you said in reference to your research. I only collect British inert ammunition. But if I was given for example a 2" mortar with original filling bands and stencils which was still filled, and the fuze had been taken apart, and deactivated, I would be very concerned indeed! I have filled/weighted 2" mortars but they are clearly identified as HES or DRILL , painted in colours to show this, with components marked Inert or dummy, or with replica fuzes that are just solid metal. This is standard practice to prevent any confusion. Yours could be an inert filler, but as always safety first. Welcome to Bocn btw! Tig.

 

[Slick]

I had an 81mm French mortar round filled with TAR!!!!! Talk about a frikkin' mess! Ended up using a heat gun to melt it. A messy chore. For clarification, it laid on its side in an uncontrolled climate shed. Summertime temps got high enough it oozed past the fuze. Made a big glob blob goo puddle. Hence, the application of heat to expedite its emptying. Cleaned up right nice.
Some other inert items are filled with resin. They don't ooze anything.

 

[Ivashkin]

Hum, double circle on the projo and on the fuze with manufacturer code (two numbers) let think it is a bulgarian shell.

22 : Elovitza, Gabrovo
46 : DUNARIT, Ruse

That can probably explain the latin marking.
Yoda

Double marking can be on Bulgarian mines for export. Then it`s definetely not Soviet mortar mine!!!

 

[Spgr30]

Hello,
Perhaps this pics could help you. First is Russian.
JM

 

[Castrophia]

Thanks for the images. That is definitely the one. Does that website have any information on what its original contents was/what is looks like (cutaway diagrams etc) I am getting mixed results from the web form phosphorous (smoke bomb) to TNT/Dinitronaphtalene. Once I can definitely work out what the contents was originally, I can work out if it is what is currently in the one I posses (which i hope is not the case!)

 

[al'saad]

Color of the filler might vary as TD mixture might contain wax or paraffin which can make some variations in color. If not sure try to scratch some of the filler using wooden stick and than take it to pros for analysis. That is the only way to be sure 100%.