ID ww1 soldier

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

I try to ID ww1 soldiers (uniforms) in a film then to ID trial launcher and projectiles.
These soldiers are on a trial area with French and British soldiers.
They wear a beret with pompom on the front. I only know spanish used this kind of hat.

 

[Dreamk]

The photograph on the right is awfully interesting - the uniform is indeed identical to the service uniforms of officers of the Spanish Legion....but there is one big problem
First this is a photograph of officer and soldiers of the Spanish Legion in Morocco in the early 1920s - showing identical an uniform (including the characteristic pockets of the jacket)

Now the problem: The Spanish legion was created only in 1920 (though the decision to create it was taken in 1919), since then the Spanish troops wore a forage cape inherited from the 19th century.
However the uniform itself is compatible with Spanish Colonial uniforms of the period and the forage cap "gorro de cuartel" (the future "chapiri" of the Spanish Legion) was already in service in the Spanish army between 1876 and 1887 (thence is name of Gorro isabelino) to reappear officially in 1919 - It is therefore possible that Spanish troops in Morocco already used before 1919 this cap as an unofficial forage cap - but I have no documentation to support this hypothesis.
This si a nice article (In Spanish...) on the history of the chapiri:
https://generaldavila.com/tag/el-gorro-de-cuatel-isabelino/
and some photos of the forge caps of the Spanish army in the ww1 period and after 1919



If this is indeed a Spanish officer, it is worth recording that in 1917 Spanish general Don Dámaso Berenguer Fusté, who was leading the Spanish troops in Morocco during this period, before becoming Ministry of War then High Commissaire of Morocco, visited the French front and the French military industries, he was accompanied by a number of Artillery officers, so the presence of "colonial uniforms" is no out of place.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Same launcher in your second movie. Soldiers and maybe an officier.
(Never seen this shell with fins for spigot mortar)





another one :

 

[copdoc]

WWI trench launchers are very interesting. They used everything from medieval crossbows and mortars to giant improvised slingshots.

Do you have better pics of the device?

Edit. Posted seconds after above.

 

[MINENAZ16]

https://imagesdefense.gouv.fr/media/catalog/product/video/87753.mp4

see at 3min40

 

[copdoc]

I can not find either of 2 books that might have info. I'll keep looking.

 

[copdoc]

Maybe French Van Dueren mortar

 

[MINENAZ16]

Fins of these rounds are exactly the same as French bomb model 1917 WD for 58T launcher.
Does anyone know what means "WD" ? I'm quite sure it's the short name of inventor.
So with this name maybe we could find informations on other projectiles and launcher.

 

[Yodamaster]

I think you forgot a little country of north. The "bonnet de police à pompon" aspart of the Belgian uniform as well WW1 as WW2.

Here a picture of WW1 Belgian soldier. https://drouot.com/l/17024189--lotthe-raymond-1867-1938-le-s

Question mortar, have a look to Van Deuren. http://canonspgmww1guns.canalblog.com/archives/2005/08/07/708828.html



Yoda


Yoda

 

[MINENAZ16]

So could be Belgian soldiers.
Common Belgian Van Deuren launcher is different.
Maybe a trial of a new launcher by Van Deuren, why not.

"major Van Deuren et généraux Pétain et Malcor à Mailly en juin 1917" (source internet)




Excellent, this is the same officer in the film (major VD), so Belgian Van Deuren invention :

 

[Yodamaster]

I still have a doubt with the officer's uniform collar. To my knowledge, this type of collar was not from the Belgian army. So I looked everywhere and found this : Dutch army. And you noticed, they also have a "bonnet de police avec pompon" !

 

[MINENAZ16]

I still have a doubt with the officer's uniform collar. To my knowledge, this type of collar was not from the Belgian army. So I looked everywhere and found this : Dutch army. And you noticed, they also have a "bonnet de police avec pompon" !

Thanks Yoda.
As you are Belgian, you are the specialist of this point.
But I'm quite sure the officer is Major Van Deuren.

Same cap as your King




Film :



Other ww1 Belgian soldiers loading grenades :

 

[Yodamaster]

Fins of these rounds are exactly the same as French bomb model 1917 WD for 58T launcher.
Does anyone know what means "WD" ? I'm quite sure it's the short name of inventor.
So with this name maybe we could find informations on other projectiles and launcher.

Where did you find this "WD" denomination ?


Yoda

 

[MINENAZ16]

Interesting question for WD. Now I think it could be a mistake in our doc. WD could be VD.
The bomb is a 18kg modified (19.5kg) with same fins as projectiles of this thread (not common french shape).
I can't find orignal doc with this bomb.



Found this (looks like old papers)

 

[Yodamaster]

Interesting question for WD. Now I think it could be a mistake in our doc. WD could be VD.
The bomb is a 18kg modified (19.5kg) with same fins as projectiles of this thread (not common french shape).
I can't find orignal doc with this bomb.

View attachment 180094

Found this (looks like old papers)

View attachment 180095View attachment 180096

I found a possible explanation that would explain VD instead of WD ! Scroll the page and read the comment of Hans De Regt.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hansderegt/6089402248


Yoda

 

[doctor]

WD is the name of bombs used for VD mortar
There are SWD and WD bombs (from Société Anonyme Westinghouse documentation)