Identification rifle grenade

[Baron_Sneom]

Hello,

I've recently purchased this rifle grenade at a local market. Could somebody tell me a little more about it?

With kind regards,

Sander

 

[sgdbdr]

Hi,


It seems to be the practice version of the belgian teargas rifle grenade BTU2-CS-M294



Not sure

Regards,

S.

 

[Baron_Sneom]

Dear S.,

That does seem to be plausible. Did the practice version also contain the teargas?

Regards,

Sander

 

[bprezzle]

Gren RFL means Rifle grenade (but you probably guessed that). I think this is a 40mm round. MCR is the abbreviation for the manufacturer, Mecar. They're well known for making rifle grenades because of their bullet trap system, hence the BTU markings (bullet trap universal). They make rifle grenades to fit for all NATO standard 5.56mm and 7.62mm rifles fitted with 22mm muzzle threads. These rounds usually carried 4/6 (not sure if it's 4 or 6 but it's one of them) CS pellets, although I can't say if the practice rounds contained any CS. I was interviewing the NATO peacekeepers in Somalia in 2015 for a news agency and taking photos for a report, I saw these deployed on people looting and rioting after they turned violent.

 

[Slick]

bprezzle covered the details. Here are the two previous posted versions along with a flare, which is a little different(longer), but not by much.
Sadly, these are spent so no way to tell what original contents each carried.

 

[sgdbdr]

In my opinion, there is no CS in the practice version, otherwise, CS would be added to the marking.

 

[bprezzle]

In my opinion, there is no CS in the practice version, otherwise, CS would be added to the marking.

I agree. I doubt that the manufacturer would produce a practice round with CS inside and not mark it as containing CS. That would be a recipe for disaster on training day.

 

[Baron_Sneom]

Gren RFL means Rifle grenade (but you probably guessed that). I think this is a 40mm round. MCR is the abbreviation for the manufacturer, Mecar. They're well known for making rifle grenades because of their bullet trap system, hence the BTU markings (bullet trap universal). They make rifle grenades to fit for all NATO standard 5.56mm and 7.62mm rifles fitted with 22mm muzzle threads. These rounds usually carried 4/6 (not sure if it's 4 or 6 but it's one of them) CS pellets, although I can't say if the practice rounds contained any CS. I was interviewing the NATO peacekeepers in Somalia in 2015 for a news agency and taking photos for a report, I saw these deployed on people looting and rioting after they turned violent.

Great explanation of the markings! a few weeks after I bought this type, I also bought a practice round of the 75mm Energa rifle grenade. With a bit of luck I can add the 22m muzzle thread to my collection. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Baron_Sneom]

bprezzle covered the details. Here are the two previous posted versions along with a flare, which is a little different(longer), but not by much.
Sadly, these are spent so no way to tell what original contents each carried.
View attachment 137015 View attachment 137016

Hey Slick! Are these from your collection? I've seen the flare version at that market too! The seller told me that it uses a parachute. Perhaps something to consider to add to the collection in the future

 

[bprezzle]

Great explanation of the markings! a few weeks after I bought this type, I also bought a practice round of the 75mm Energa rifle grenade. With a bit of luck I can add the 22m muzzle thread to my collection. Thanks for the explanation!

You're very welcome! The Energa 75mm was also manufactured by Mecar, I believe. I've seen a South African Energa before mounted to a Rhodesian FN Fal, they're a nice piece of ordnance to have.

 

[Slick]

Baron

Yes, I have these in the assortment. Keep your eyes open for the following:


And the shipping tube for the flare (yes, it has a parachute)


And one of these:


Here's an M59/66 (Yugo SKS) launcher. Not sure what your gun parts owning rules are over there. Any number of NATO nation versions are out there. They sell the SKS versions nearly wholesale(cheap) over here.

 

[Slick]

Since we're on the topic, here are three that I'm not sure about. Searches for details found nothing. Any help IDing is appreciated.

 

[doppz92]

If I am not mistaken all 3 are French, first one training, second Illumination and 3rd Tear Gas, could be used on all French issue rifles and left one manufactured 1971 I think and Gas one 60 something? But I am sure you will get more detailed info.

 

[Slick]

FRANCE!!! Looked at lexpev's site and found nos. 1 & 2. 1- MLE 40 (mine is obviously a practice version) and then 2- ART SI FL 40 59 flare. A little different marking but close enough.
Still hunting for details on #3.

Upate #1- Located these details on the APAV 40 (F1) (my ID - MLE 40). Besides it being a practice version, it is also of the earlier type which utilizes a blank for launching vs the newer ( F2 ), which is of the bullet trap design.

The APAV 40 is a dual purpose, anti-personnel (AP) and anti-vehicle (AV), 40 mm rifle-grenade. It has a mass of 405 grams,[SUP][1][/SUP] and a tail with stabilizing fins. Explosion is triggered by an impact fuse.

Two version of the APAV 40 exist:

• the older F1 model which must be fired with a blank (ballistite) cartridge
• the current F2 model which uses a bullet-trap that allows using live rounds

 

[sgdbdr]

Hi,

To complete Slick's previous posts, the French APAV 40 Practice grenade is reusable. On the picture below you can see the spare parts (safety pin, smoke cartridge, primer) and the tools to do so.
About the third grenade in post #12, the "RFL" (for RiFLe) marking is not French. On the french rifle grenades, there is usually "FL" (for FusiL).



Regards,

S.

 

[Slick]

#3 is now identified. Thanks to Geert.

The third one (of the last series), the grey ASM one is a BELGIAN teargas grenade used by our former Rijkswacht (Gendarmerie) (Law enforcement police - used to be a part of our military at that time - now integrated in local police).

 

[oktato]

Hey Slick! Are these from your collection? I've seen the flare version at that market too! The seller told me that it uses a parachute. Perhaps something to consider to add to the collection in the future

Welcome to the club! The good news is that there are lots of different Belgian rifle grenades to collect:



As mentioned in one of the posts, Lexpev is a great online source for information. Any of the Jane's Infantry Weapons books will also be useful.

Happy hunting!

Gary

 

[oktato]

bprezzle covered the details. Here are the two previous posted versions along with a flare, which is a little different(longer), but not by much.
Sadly, these are spent so no way to tell what original contents each carried.
View attachment 137015 View attachment 137016

Contents of the CS version:

 

[Baron_Sneom]

Welcome to the club! The good news is that there are lots of different Belgian rifle grenades to collect:

View attachment 137145 View attachment 137146 View attachment 137147 View attachment 137148 View attachment 137149 View attachment 137150

As mentioned in one of the posts, Lexpev is a great online source for information. Any of the Jane's Infantry Weapons books will also be useful.

Happy hunting!

Gary

Hey oktato!
Very nice collection you've got there Here is my other rifle grenade.

Greetings from Belgium

Sander

 

[oktato]

Thanks for the photo, Sander.

You really are in the best country to collect post-WWII rifle grenades.
I bought a lot of mine from the Expo in Ciney, before they banned the sale of inert ordnance :tinysmile_angry_t:

Gary