Ran across this photo in a book. No doubt others have seen it before, but I had not. I bet that no would-be Rambo would fire this from the shoulder...at least twice! Wonder what the effective range was. Of course, they have put 60mm and 82mm mortar bodies on PG-7 motors in South America and get well over 200 yards of accurate range. Ingenuity sometimes trumps common sense.
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Improvised Rifle Grenade
- Thread starter EODGUY
- Start date
Bob,
If I recall correctly, that photo first appeared in Barne's 1947 book on U.S. weapons of WWII. A really good book with lots of images and specs of odd weapons and munitions.
The great thing about that combination of rifle projection adapter and M49 mortar round is, even though it looks like an absurd application, it was officially authorized.
Attached is a copy of TB 9-1985-2 from 26 January, 1944. Lots of interesting notations for a 4 page pamphlet including "The round will be used only in cases of emergency and then only at the discretion of ground forces commanders.", "It will not be fired from the shoulder.", and "Note.--About 70 percent of the shells fired in this manner can be expected to explode."
If one has a spare M1 projection adapter and wants to assemble a round like this, be very careful about bending the spring fingers inward (as noted in the TB). They are very springy and brittle and break easily if over-bent.
Rick
If I recall correctly, that photo first appeared in Barne's 1947 book on U.S. weapons of WWII. A really good book with lots of images and specs of odd weapons and munitions.
The great thing about that combination of rifle projection adapter and M49 mortar round is, even though it looks like an absurd application, it was officially authorized.
Attached is a copy of TB 9-1985-2 from 26 January, 1944. Lots of interesting notations for a 4 page pamphlet including "The round will be used only in cases of emergency and then only at the discretion of ground forces commanders.", "It will not be fired from the shoulder.", and "Note.--About 70 percent of the shells fired in this manner can be expected to explode."
If one has a spare M1 projection adapter and wants to assemble a round like this, be very careful about bending the spring fingers inward (as noted in the TB). They are very springy and brittle and break easily if over-bent.
Rick
Attachments
Nice info there Rick Thanks for it.
Grenademan2005
Well-Known Member
I want to add a point here: I found exact photo some years ago at the Diekirch Museum at Luxembourg and even the museum have an example, I took pics of both, well, I took pics even of the ground :nerd: Well, I want that you see that the 6cm Mortar is not fitted in a M1 Grenade Launcher, but in an M17 Grenade Launcher, both in the wartime pic and on the example in the museum. In the pic you can see the knobs located in the middle of the M17 tails which is not located on the M1 Adapters. Better if you take the pics and make zoom on them :captain:
Attachments
Good eyes Miguel. I hadn't noted that detail before.
Attached below is yet another official version of the rifle launched 60mm mortar round the Ordnance Department experimented with. This version is noted in the November, 1943 document on Jungle Weapons. As you can see, the fin has been removed and the body and M17 tail linked directly for a less cumbersome round.
I have one of the assemblies in my rifle grenade display as shown in the TB 9. It is NOT a very stable setup and I would be very nervous handling a live mortar round and worrying constantly that it might fall out of the adapter's spring fingers at any moment and drop at my feet. My guess is that some Ordnance Base Shop or machine shop truck made up special adapters to screw directly into the female threads of the fin after removing the ignition cartridge.
There was a lot of experimentation during the war adapting different parts of explosive ordnance items to each other as field expedients. Bomb bodies attached to rocket motors seemed to be a popular experiment and they also attached the 60mm M49 mortar body to the rocket and fin of the 2.36" bazooka, calling it the T30.
Rick
Attached below is yet another official version of the rifle launched 60mm mortar round the Ordnance Department experimented with. This version is noted in the November, 1943 document on Jungle Weapons. As you can see, the fin has been removed and the body and M17 tail linked directly for a less cumbersome round.
I have one of the assemblies in my rifle grenade display as shown in the TB 9. It is NOT a very stable setup and I would be very nervous handling a live mortar round and worrying constantly that it might fall out of the adapter's spring fingers at any moment and drop at my feet. My guess is that some Ordnance Base Shop or machine shop truck made up special adapters to screw directly into the female threads of the fin after removing the ignition cartridge.
There was a lot of experimentation during the war adapting different parts of explosive ordnance items to each other as field expedients. Bomb bodies attached to rocket motors seemed to be a popular experiment and they also attached the 60mm M49 mortar body to the rocket and fin of the 2.36" bazooka, calling it the T30.
Rick
Attachments
Joe Follansbee
New Member
Rick,
I am a new member. I'm hoping - that I can connect with you and get better copies of TB 9-1985-2. I actually tried to get copies of this from the Fort Benning Library (formerly Infantry, now Maneuver Center of Excellence). They - surprisingly - didn't have a copie themselves! They did lead me to this forum, and I can capture the attached thumbnails, but am hoping you might have better PDF copies?? If you do, and if you will share, the MCOE librarian has actually asked me to provide her a copy!
THANK-YOU if you can help, and even the thumbnail sketches are WONDERFUL and appear to be a rare record of this TB. I intend to seek out the Pentagon Library on this issue also, just to make sure they have it - or get it - if I am enabled by yourself.
Thank-you,
Joe Follansbee
I am a new member. I'm hoping - that I can connect with you and get better copies of TB 9-1985-2. I actually tried to get copies of this from the Fort Benning Library (formerly Infantry, now Maneuver Center of Excellence). They - surprisingly - didn't have a copie themselves! They did lead me to this forum, and I can capture the attached thumbnails, but am hoping you might have better PDF copies?? If you do, and if you will share, the MCOE librarian has actually asked me to provide her a copy!
THANK-YOU if you can help, and even the thumbnail sketches are WONDERFUL and appear to be a rare record of this TB. I intend to seek out the Pentagon Library on this issue also, just to make sure they have it - or get it - if I am enabled by yourself.
Thank-you,
Joe Follansbee