Italian 90mm Shells

[Vollketten]

This is my first post on this forum (save for saying hello) and I apologise if it is a little naive but I seem to have exhausted my pool of reference material on the matter and having searched this forum cannot answer the question either.

The question is in a few parts but essentially I am looking for information of Italian 90mm shells specifically for this gun: (this is the 90/53 mounted on a modified M.43/M.43 tank hull and used as a tank destroyer) or shells for other 90mm guns which are compatable.

So far as a list I have:

• 90/42-53 M.? HE shell at 17.4kg , 10.00 kg projectile filled with u/k quantity of TNT
• 90/53 M.? AP shell at 19.6kg, 12.16kg projectile - has a TNT filling of u/k quantity
• 90/53 M.? AA shell fitted with Nose Time Fuse M41 or MT36, weighing between 17.05 to 17.913kg, projectile weighing between 10.10 and 10.30kg with a 1kg TNT filling
• or fitted with Nose Fuse IO M40 p.c (percussion) - apparently used against armoured targets
• or fitted with Nose Fuse R.40 m.c (percussion) - apparently used against armoured targets
• 90/53 with M.36 (gunpowder filled) fuse
• 90/53 with M.36R (gunpowder filled) fuse
• 90/53 'Foil Grenade' with M.41 clockwork fuse
• 90/53 'Foil-Piercing Grenade' [Cartoccio Granata Perforante] with M.09 fuse (3 models)
• 90/42 'Foil-Piercing Grenade' [Cartoccio Granata Semiperforante]
• 90mm practice/dummy/training round
• 90mm Effetto Pronto (EP) [Rapid Effect] M.? shell - HEAT type round
• 90/53 M.41 EP or Effetto Pronto Speciale M.? Shell -EPS is a HESH type round

This is where I have found information so far:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/90/53_Mod._193
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Armi_d%27artiglieria_italiane
Tactical and Technical Trends (No. 25, No.26)
TM 9-1985-6 and TO 39B-1A-8 "Italian and French Explosive Ordnance" US Military March 1953
Veicoli da Combattimento dell'Esercito Italiano dal 1939 al 1945
Italian Armored vehicles of World War Two: Signal no. 6089,Nicola Pignato
Gli Autoveicoli da Esercito Italiano - Pignato


And finally. Does anyone have better technical information on this 90/53, an earlier 90/42, an experimental 90/71 (was in prototype stage in 1943 when Italy capitulated) and the post war 90/74 such as whether they can use the same ammunition etc.

Thank you for any help, with shells, images, penetration or testing data, in fact anything you can help me with.

 

[bdgreen]

Don't know if this of any use but there is 90/53 AA gun material here: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/36377-90mm-AA-gun-round-Italy-WW-II

 

[Vollketten]

yes I saw that thread and I had no idea HASAG had made shells for the Italian guns.
Information on Italian guns and shells is sorely lacking and I see a lot of members here have some very obscure reference guides etc. so I thought it was an ideal venue for a rather obscure topic.

 

[teller67]

This is my first post on this forum (save for saying hello) and I apologise if it is a little naive but I seem to have exhausted my pool of reference material on the matter and having searched this forum cannot answer the question either.

The question is in a few parts but essentially I am looking for information of Italian 90mm shells specifically for this gun: (this is the 90/53 mounted on a modified M.43/M.43 tank hull and used as a tank destroyer) or shells for other 90mm guns which are compatable.
View attachment 89438
So far as a list I have:

• 90/42-53 M.? HE shell at 17.4kg , 10.00 kg projectile filled with u/k quantity of TNT
• 90/53 M.? AP shell at 19.6kg, 12.16kg projectile - has a TNT filling of u/k quantity
• 90/53 M.? AA shell fitted with Nose Time Fuse M41 or MT36, weighing between 17.05 to 17.913kg, projectile weighing between 10.10 and 10.30kg with a 1kg TNT filling
• or fitted with Nose Fuse IO M40 p.c (percussion) - apparently used against armoured targets
• or fitted with Nose Fuse R.40 m.c (percussion) - apparently used against armoured targets
• 90/53 with M.36 (gunpowder filled) fuse
• 90/53 with M.36R (gunpowder filled) fuse
• 90/53 'Foil Grenade' with M.41 clockwork fuse
• 90/53 'Foil-Piercing Grenade' [Cartoccio Granata Perforante] with M.09 fuse (3 models)
• 90/42 'Foil-Piercing Grenade' [Cartoccio Granata Semiperforante]
• 90mm practice/dummy/training round
• 90mm Effetto Pronto (EP) [Rapid Effect] M.? shell - HEAT type round
• 90/53 M.41 EP or Effetto Pronto Speciale M.? Shell -EPS is a HESH type round

This is where I have found information so far:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/90/53_Mod._193
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Armi_d%27artiglieria_italiane
Tactical and Technical Trends (No. 25, No.26)
TM 9-1985-6 and TO 39B-1A-8 "Italian and French Explosive Ordnance" US Military March 1953
Veicoli da Combattimento dell'Esercito Italiano dal 1939 al 1945
Italian Armored vehicles of World War Two: Signal no. 6089,Nicola Pignato
Gli Autoveicoli da Esercito Italiano - Pignato


And finally. Does anyone have better technical information on this 90/53, an earlier 90/42, an experimental 90/71 (was in prototype stage in 1943 when Italy capitulated) and the post war 90/74 such as whether they can use the same ammunition etc.

Thank you for any help, with shells, images, penetration or testing data, in fact anything you can help me with.

Hi Vollketten, just for precision, EPS type is not a HESH round, but another HEAT round type. Simply, the EP projectile had an internal base fuze, and the EPS projectile had a point initiating fuze and a base detonator (just like german Hohlladung projectiles).

Bye