Japanese f headstamp

BOUGAINVILLE · May 31, 2009

Hi all out there,:tinysmile_shy_t:

I am pretty good when it comes to reading Japanese Headstamps but I have always been puzzled by the F found on shell casings 37 mm and above as shown in attached picture.

Does anyone out there know what the F stands for without guessing?

The headstamp markings shown in this picture indicate that it was made at the Osaka Arsenal in September of 1936. The primer to the centre of the base has stamps for the first Tokyo Arsenal and a February of 1939 date.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

rickseid · May 31, 2009

The "F" on Japanese cases

I have been told that the "F" comes from when the British were dominant in the Japanese military establishment (~1900+), and that it represents a "Full" charge to have been loaded in the case. I have never found this explanation in an official document. -Rick

BOUGAINVILLE · May 31, 2009

Gee thanks Rick. At least that sounds quite plausable. I too have never see referance to the F headstamp in any publication although there is more that enough about all of the other headstamps there seems to be void when it comes to that F.
Many thanks,
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

HAZORD · Jun 1, 2009

I was looking at a few of my cases last night, and I found a number of them with the F, but I had at least one with an E

ogreve · Jun 2, 2009

HAZORD said:
I was looking at a few of my cases last night, and I found a number of them with the F, but I had at least one with an E

Hi,

Let me have a wild-card guess: the one with the 'E' was most likely a 47x130R case?
These rounds were manufactured in Britain (and France too, I think), and would often have British markings, like e.g. "E.O.C." and "C.F." which can be found on one of my samples, and also, very often, the letter 'E' (often, but not always, in a circle).
Other odd headstamps I've seen were on Type 41 75x185R calibres, which often bear Chinese markings (and were often (re-)used by the Chinese after WW2), and 37x112R Type 11, light infantry gun, cases, which were often manufactured in occupied China. One such sample doesn't have anything at the 12 o'clock position, and another one I've seen has the letter 'A' at that position. These also follow an overall different headstamp style.

A for Slick Rick's comment, it was I who conjectured it to possibly mean 'army' usage. It certainly hasn't been seen by me on any IJN case, and only (and always?) seems to appear on the typical style IJA headstamps, as shown in the original question.

I'm hoping Ken Elks may have an answer there; perhaps in his soon to be released part 2 of his excellent work on Japanese ammo.

Also, in amongst a heavily overpaid set of digital documents I have on Japanese ammo, there is a great one which is 100% in Japanese (titled "Japanese ammunition", as far as I can decipher the Kanji). I have just sent that one to a Japanese contact of mine. I can ask him if that document perhaps mentions anything about this letter 'F'.

Cheers!
Olafo

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 2, 2009

Japanese ammunition translation

Hi there Ogreve,:tinysmile_shy_t:
I haven't got around to getting it yet but I know that the Australian War Memorial Museum have a heap of captured Japanese manuals etc that were translated into English by the Allied Translation and Interpreter Service during WWII.
From memory some of them are about individual weapons such as machine guns and I think one of them is on ammuniton. Digital or photocopies are available on request for a fee. Now when searching the AWM site look under Japan Australia Research Project http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/
and enter in the search option ---- manual*
I think you will agree, there is a heap of mind boggling material available.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

TimG · Jun 2, 2009

If, the 'F' stamp is a case life history indicator, one would assume that are also cases with multiple 'F's thereon and maybe 'R's as well. Has anyone seen cases so marked?

Regards

TimG.

ogreve · Jun 3, 2009

Hi,

Nope, never seen cases marked that way...

Also, @Bougainville: thanks for the links; I'm going to check it out!

Cheers,
Olafo

ogreve · Jun 3, 2009

Hi again,

Alright, I had a quick browse, and if I searched correctly, at least the following 4 URLs sound interesting:
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...e194412cad9ac6bbca256db100805a2f?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...0e1d674999f11bedca256db90019f5df?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...0421510dab7e5dde852566a5004db044?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...28fc22f1acf64d56ca256e35007d0c74?OpenDocument

It would be highly interesting to see if copies can be had of these, especially of the one having the colour plates of ammunition too!

Cheers,
Olafo

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 3, 2009

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Hope this is of help'
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

ogreve said:
Hi again,

Alright, I had a quick browse, and if I searched correctly, at least the following 4 URLs sound interesting:
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...e194412cad9ac6bbca256db100805a2f?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...0e1d674999f11bedca256db90019f5df?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...0421510dab7e5dde852566a5004db044?OpenDocument
http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.n...28fc22f1acf64d56ca256e35007d0c74?OpenDocument

It would be highly interesting to see if copies can be had of these, especially of the one having the colour plates of ammunition too!

Cheers,
Olafo

ogreve · Jun 3, 2009

Hi,

Yes, especially the second one (i.e. EP-312) sounds very good.
I'm wondering if somebody perhaps already has these documents. If not, perhaps it could be a good idea to team up with several interested parties to acquire some of them.

Anyone interested in such an initiative?

Cheers!
Olafo

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 3, 2009

Translated wwii japanese manuals

Hi Orgeve,:tinysmile_shy_t:
Count me in. I'm interested in being part of a group to pool our resources in order to obtain some digital copies of the subjects that are of interest to us.
I don't think that many people know about these translations, well certainly not anyone that I have come across. I only found them by acident while seaching for any material concerning Bougainville.

There is enough material and subject mater available to make anybody that is remotely interested in anything Japanese to wet their pants with excitement. For anyone that hasn't already done so just visit http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/
and enter in the search option ---- manual*
Then scroll down the huge list, there is bound to be something to make you excited be it about bombs, munitions, weapons, firing tables, radios, fuel, aircraft, equipment, gas warfare, artillery, fuses, etc. etc.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

ogreve said:
Hi,

Yes, especially the second one (i.e. EP-312) sounds very good.
I'm wondering if somebody perhaps already has these documents. If not, perhaps it could be a good idea to team up with several interested parties to acquire some of them.

Anyone interested in such an initiative?

Cheers!
Olafo

ogreve · Jun 3, 2009

Hi guys,

Excellent!
So we're already three then! :tinysmile_fatgrin_t

Alright, hopefully we can rally some more allies, and order some good titles; we could have a go at a few of the majorly interesting sounding titles as a start.

BTW: I've managed to amass quite a lot of titles on Japanese ammo too, I shall compile a list soon of what I have and post it to see if we can mutually fill some gaps. AFAIC you can have copies of my documents for free; that way you wouldn't have to overpay for them from certain sellers who love to sell them for too high amounts.

Cheers!
Olafo

Investment · Jun 4, 2009

Count me in too please, that now makes 4

Investment · Jun 4, 2009

A few more F stamped shell casings :hmmmm:

1st picture is 75mm x 495mm

2nd picture is 75mm x 185mm

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 4, 2009

Hi mates,:tinysmile_shy_t:
What do you reckon, wait and see if a few more come on board and then we can deligate a person to do the ordering. Once we know the cost we then can all divide equally the costs amoungst ourselves. How does that sound?

Hey Slick Rick, that book sounds great illustration wise. Where did you score that? More often than not the info is out there in English somewhere. Good quality illustrations are usually the hardest to find. The majority of time I spend researching is not with the written word but with finding illustrations and good quality photos and then getting them just right, even redrawing them to get them near to 100% as posible with all background eliminated etc. etc. An example of my enhanced illustrations can be seen in the 3 illustrations of 37 mm Japanese projectiles that I posted just last week. Took me quite a few hours playing around to get the poorly scaned illustrations just right. It just so happens that those poorly scaned illustrations were the only ones circulating.

Cheers,
Bougainville:tinysmile_shy_t:

Investment · Jun 4, 2009

Hi,

If it helps, I have no problem in doing the ordering, as I know someone who works at the Australian War Memorial. So, will ask them who the best person is to contact in the AJRP area about getting copies.

From previous dealings with other AWM sections, I always find it works best to deal with one person directly in the area you are interested in.

What do other interested members think about leaving it until the end of June before going ahead with any orders ?

This way other members who might like to get on board still have time to join us.

Cheers,

Invest

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 4, 2009

Hi Investment,:tinysmile_shy_t:

That sounds great by me.

Cheers,
Bougainville:tinysmile_shy_t:

Bonnex · Jun 4, 2009

Japanese Ammunition Technical Reports

The ammunition organisation in India during WW2 produced Japanese ammunition exploitation reports for Inspecting Ordnance Officers (Ammunition Technical Officers in today's money).

For you chaps with an unhealthy interest in Japanese ammunition I have put up a couple on:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=421c0689816d69ee4c17ca8801618ef7e04e75f6e8ebb871

If it works OK and you want some more let me know.

Who knows they might explain the elusive 'F'.

BOUGAINVILLE · Jun 4, 2009

Hey Bonnex,:tinysmile_shy_t:
That sounds great info. I will check it out. I am very keen on obtaining the full set of or professionly done copies of the Kirkee ammunition leaflets on Japanese ammunition as they are the BEST. More thorough than anything else that I have ever seen. When the British do something they do it well, rather Teutonic.

Hey guys,:tinysmile_shy_t:
We have another member on board. Ozziammo had just sent me a private message quoted below;

Howdy BOUGANVILLE,

I also would be interested in copies of some of the ammo manuals, please keep me in the loop if & when it all happens?

Thanks,

Regards Ozzi-Peter.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:

Japanese f headstamp

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