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Legality of owning fuzes in the UK

F

Fuzeman

Guest
Hi to all BOCN members and guests reading this , there appears to be a lot of confusion here in the UK about the legal ownership of German Bomb Fuzes, i will try to give you the correct information
the present situation is that it is not illegal to own any type of German bomb fuze , and there is no future legislation to ban them !as they contain no hazardous material , the capicitors that once contained an electrical charge , has long since deteriated , and is no longer capable of that function.. The match composition which the charge in the capicitors would have ignited is deep inside the fuze body , and in all cases would be unable to access, so that is another hazard removed .
Anyone who enters your premises and states that it is illegal to own ,take with a pinch of salt as they do not know what they are talking about.

END of Lesson
 
Thank you Steve as ive been flapping since one of the collector community`s has been found guilty of having some unlicensed weapons this week.

Does your post rule apply to those fuzes on projectiles such as AZ23/AZ1,ZZ60 and the like?

cheers

waff
 
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Hi Paul
Yes it does there are no restrictions on AZ23 etc but if they are on the projectile themself then i would advise that they be able to be unscrewable to be on the safe side , that way it proves that the projectile is empty .
 
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So if i tell any potential visitors that they are all literally `paperweights` then im cool?
What about all my ZZ42 trip fuzes etc?,they are all `spent`.
best

waff.
 
Never any problems with ZZ35 ZZuZ35 ZZ42 all perfectly legal to own ,remember last year i gave a lecture to the Channel islands police force .years ago they themselfs gave me some ZZ35 that were dug up .
 
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Ok and thank you yet again old friend.
I think its a good idea to let this thread run as i for one have always been a little unsure.

How do i go on with displaying my SD2`s and SD4?
Another good pal in here advises me to display them completely separated?
Currently they are all together but loose parts.

best

waff
 
Mine are all assembled Paul , but are easy to unscrew if needed for cleaning etc
 
Ok,my colleague in here advises me that items can be removed at will.
Now are they allowed just to snatch your stuff like that?

best

waff
 
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Im not a lawyer but i guess the police would have to produce a warrant to search and seize anything dangerous the police do not have the power to enter premises only Customs can do that
 
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Righto,im a lot happier now.
Just trying to stay on the right side of the law.
Thank you very much for the input.

cheers and best

waff
 
many thanks Steve, the more information that is in the public domain the better - visits are on the increase due in part to the increased number of items being sent via Royal Mail (thanks to ebay, SA.com etc) and the more sophistciated sensing equipment installed in sorting offices in the fight again terrorism. Even WW2 shell cases will have a residue that can now be detected throught the packaging - a friend rec'd a shell case via the post to which had been attached a list of the component parts of the original propellant! But equally, another friend has just been informed that he can have his collection back as there was nothing illegal in it. But we all know that live handguns are a no no, that shotguns must be held on certificate and that live ammo. needs to be held against a valid certificate and properly stored. Those who knowingly break the law can't really complain if they get caught. They may be our friends, but they don't do us any favours by bringing unfavourable publicity to our sphere of collecting.
Another tip if you do get a visit is to insist on an itemised receipt - they'll be quite happy to just take it all away but they don't always bring it all back! Dave
 
Thank you too Dave,
As you say,i think its good for us to approach this subject especially in this day and age.


best

waff
 
Waff,
The gentleman who you originally referred to was sent down for weapons offences, ie the guns themselves, and not deliberate although he should have known better. He is also a collector of certain types of ordnance and although these were removed by other uniformed gentlemen for examination they were returned, with a few exceptions. The point to make here is that the ordnance was not the cause of the incarceration and, if inert, is legal to own. It's good to know the issues and the law, but there is no need for the collecting fraternity to panic. BD
 
Another associate of the person who was raided and convicted went through the same thing and faces sentencing on September 1. Both gentlemen had the bulk of thier collections seized (read truck loads here) but as mentioned earlier in the thread, most items were returned. Don't know if the items which were not returned are still being held or if they were destroyed. In both cases though, the convictions were for relic but functional firearms which carried manditory jail time.

Without getting into a political debate, I think the entire thing was a waste of public funds and once the police realized they were dealing with collectors and not terrorists, they had to follow up and do something to justify their time and expense associated with the raid and storage of seized property. Sadly these two friends are paying the price.
 
To get a visit as Rickoshae said Dodgy post being intercepted either packed sloppily or the item not disassembled and shown on x ray as a piece of recognisable ordnance. Because of the sensitivity of ordnance these days as with guns even though inert ordnance is legal collectors have to be careful who they show off their collection to. Imagine a party or barbecue a collector showing off his collection to friends and family only to find that you got a visit because someone who saw your collection mentioned it to some one else at the pub or office and they mentioned it to the police saying so and so has got bombs and grenades in their house.
Collectors who decide to photo their collection in their garden face a risk only to find that Mrs curtain twitcher nosey Parker tells the police that so and so has Bombs and grenades at their house. It doesn't take much to get them around especially when a swat squad can turns up on you door just for you shooting an air pistol in the back garden reported by a nosey neighbor, an all to common occurrence these days.
I think that over time collectors can get a bit complacent not ever thinking about a visit but i think in this game these days collectors should look at their collection and evaluate if they have any questionable items that will give the police and EOD an excuse to confiscate the rest of your collection who may inspect it, like live items and items that can't be taken apart to at least show the police and EOD that there are no undesirable contents inside.
It may be perfectly OK to display a bomb with a fuze in it but to a copper and the EOD they don't know the history of it and may take it away before you demonstrated that the fuze comes out and its not live but remember they are more concerned about the rest of the public's welfare than your priceless collection, decide how you are going to display, it may need thinking about think of worse case scenarios, be prepared just in case. I can guarantee that you wished you done it earlier
I have had a visit in the past and i know what they are looking for, they do look in side to make sure its safe. It must be tempting to keep that rare live detonator all marker up, rare as rocking horse stuff or the unfired pak round found in mint condition found in Normandy but do you you risk you collection just because of a few rare items or get them sorted and made inert. If any of you collectors do get a visit and you know that your collection is safe and inert and you have no naughty items then you have nothing to worry about, that was the down fall of a recent collector, he did have illagal stuff. If you do have a visit be polite but stand your ground and don't let them play the 'what if game' with you.
 
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I too have had several visits the first because of a CD from holland was intercepted , when opened it had Ordnance information on (in fact it was wartime) Special branch turned up , but were soon satisfied that what they saw, was not some nutter , but a genuine collector. and the second visit last year was because i had photographed the collection and had Tescos develop the film , which was a 35mm film camera , the assistant saw the manuals on a shelf and decided it warranted an investigation , again that visit , but this time by ordinary police , looked at the collection and the letters of introduction i had and also decided there was no risk, in fact im now been told im on the books in case anything is needed to be identified.
so you see there is no need for scare mongering,i also supplied manuals and given talks to the police on Fuzes and Igniters , and yesterday i had an invite to give a talk in Malta next year .
 
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Again i thank all of the members who have added to this much needed thread.
Im in the middle of a massive re-evaluation of all my collection at the moment.
I know ive nowt dodgy but as Chris says,its good to keep on your toes especially in this post-911 environment.
Im going to put washers/rattly bits in all my ordnance i have on display and going to make sure it all strips loosely.
Im also going to make a photographic portfolio too of the items stripped and than in the built up position.
Next up will be labelling with `Free From Explosive `stickers.Ok it might be overkill but its better safe than sorry i guess.
I for one feel a lot better now this has been talked about in the forums.

best regards

waff
 
One of the things about UK law is that even if there is good reason why an item will not work, the presence of an explosive or confined flammable substance will still mean that the item is not free from explosives or chemical contamination and therefore not FFE and still a hazard however small or insignificant.

Secondly some items of ammunition still come under crown ownership so may be confiscated unless an authorised bill of sale can be produced. This effects those items recovered from friring ranges still on crown land.
(Think of a skip. If you have a skip outside your house and you dump something in it, later that night someone removes that item they are guilty of stealing even if you have thrown it away). This effects any item found on such property, as the crown has a legitimate right to the monetary value of any scrap raised from that property. Companies contracted to clear ranges may have the right to scrap value in the contract, alternatively the scarp value can be owned by the landowner if an old range is returned after use.

If a scrap yard buys a consignment of scrap that is found to contain an item that is not FFE the MoD will charge for the scrap yard to be cleared.

Obviously one off items may be disposed of by the EOD but there is a cut off where it becomes a clearance job for another agency.

Recovered enemy ammunition may be problematic as it still technically remains the property of the country that dropped them. The crown also has the right of ownership as the scrap value can be classed as reparation against war damage.

These are some of the Al Capone chargse that may be levied if more serious charges cannot be brought.

( an Al Capone charge is a lesser charge used to secure conviction if there is not enough evidence for larger charges. Al Capone was imprisoned for tax evasion).
 
Very well expressed, but lets not forget that the ownership rule could be used for every item of miltaria now collected, not just ordnance. Perhaps time to close this thread for fear of getting into areas of dispute where we really don't want to go! BD

:tinysmile_twink_t2:
 
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