M468, 105-mm, tpt

[jvollenberg]

I am looking for some information on a U.S. 105-MM M468 TPT Projectile. We have an old ID guide on this projectile, but when I start looking around I can't find anything out there on it. Thought maybe someone, somewhere, has dug something up, or has one.

It basically is the training version of the HEP round.

Joe

 

[US-Subs]

M468 or M408? I'm at work and have no ord refs nearby at the moment, but in my notes I've got M408 and M416 as the live round?

 

[US-Subs]

And was it HEP, or WP?

 

[HAZORD]

What info are you looking for exactly. I have an unfired one crimped in a case, fired examples and a sectioned one along with newly fired cases.

 

[US-Subs]

John, is it 468 or 408? I may need a new (larger) magnifying glass.

 

[jvollenberg]

OK ...
It is a M468 and a training HEP round. I will see if I can find a copy of the ID guide. It is odd ...

Joe

 

[HAZORD]

Jeff, my unfired one was produced by Norris Industries in Vernon California in 1977. The cartridge is labeled M467 and the projectile is steel stamped M468.

I can't find the stamping on my sectioned one, I must have cut that piece out when I sectioned it.

 

[HAZORD]

Joe,

They fired a lot of them M467/M468 on the local range here. They also fired a lot of inert loaded real HEP-T projectiles loaded with a gray waxlike substance.

The Model number ID stamping in the steel body is approximately 1/2 inch above the top rotating band. It is the only HEP shaped projo with an aluminum nose/ogive that I have seen.

 

[jvollenberg]

Interesting ... can you take some pictures for me?

Joe

 

[HAZORD]

Sure,

What would you like to see exactly, complete round, lettering on round, lettering on projo, sectioned projo? I can shoot them tomorrow.

 

[jvollenberg]

Complete round / one of the Projo itself and a close up of the nomenclature / and one of the sectioned one as well if possible.

I am rewriting an old publication on this ... thought maybe it didn't exist. I had found the 467 but nothing on the 468. Sometimes the way we documented the test items wasn't the greatest. And I wonder if they ever fielded the 468 or just decided to call it the 467 once they decided to field it.

 

[HAZORD]

My loaded projo is factory lettered M467 with the 468 projo in it. I believe that was the way they were issued. I also have a bunch of cases, picked up right after they were fired, with the nomenclature painted on the head, if you want photos of that.

 

[jvollenberg]

This is what I have been working with ... this is the sheet off of the new ORDATA. But it is based off the old ID guides.

They even attached the ID guide at the end:

http://cord.gichd.org/?ordnance=http://cord.gichd.org/ontology#Projectile1146

Joe

 

[jvollenberg]

Anything you can provide would be just fine ...

Thanks again ... Joe

 

[HAZORD]

Well, I'm not sure who produces those ID sheets, but that one is crap. At least they need to get their hands on an electronic version of TM 43-0001-28. All the missing info is as I posted. Also, since it is so easy to ID by the aluminum ogive, there isn't any point in wasting good bang on blowing them up.

 

[weberoed]

My info shows it as a HEP TP-T, there being 2 versions one with a longer tracer (which I ahve never seen) and one with the tracer right in the base, same as for a BD fuze. I must have picked a hundred of these up off ranges at Ft Hood. If the colors are still present it is an easy ID. But if the round is rusted it was ahrd to find the nomenclature near the base. We would find a number of them that had impacted a hard target and were all smashed up just like a HEP would look like. Sometimes the rounds would be split and you could see the wax filler.

But I agree the site posted that attempted to show the round is pretty bad. I'll try to clean up my pictures and see if I can get them posted

 

[jvollenberg]

WELL ... We produced those, a long time ago (The ID sheets, not that web site). I am trying to clean them out, see if the actual items REALLY existed, or redo the pubs and make them better. The ORDATA site, I have nothing to do with. But ... all means please have them fix it if you can, because it is not very good.

And I looked in the 43 series, but couldn't find that noemenclature, just the 467 not the 468.

Joe

 

[weberoed]

Isn't there an EODP on the 468?

 

[jvollenberg]

Yes ... it's the old ID guide. That's it. Some of them got pulled over back in the old days and never redone ... that's what I am working on. Getting the old ID guide EODP redone.

 

[HAZORD]

Finally, some photos. An OD green HEP round on the left and the TP-T M467 on the right. You will notice that the case crimps in the middle of the top rotating band. There is a photo showing an octagonal stamp below the case mouth. That is the Norris Industries acceptance stamp. Norris manufactured both the case and the projectile. We were still making 105G cases when I worked for the company in 1989. The projectile would have been forged and drawn from bar stock, and the aluminum ogive would have been drawn and turned. The aluminum had some porosity. The rust on the inside of the projo is from rain water that leaked into it as it lay on the firing range. Normally the correct color code for the HEP-T would be OD green with a 2 inch black band near the nose and yellow lettering, but this assembly was made up as a drill round or something similar. The marks on the case look like it has spent some time in the ammo racks of a tank.