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M68 Hand Frag
- Thread starter jvollenberg
- Start date
The fuze was the M217 fuze. No markings on it.
Joe
Joe
paul the grenade
Well-Known Member
I think it should be somthing like this
GRENADE HAND IMPACT, M68 COMP B. LOT.
I dont know what the exact lot number would have been. Also the lever would be red with IMPACT on it.
Cheers, Paul.
GRENADE HAND IMPACT, M68 COMP B. LOT.
I dont know what the exact lot number would have been. Also the lever would be red with IMPACT on it.
Cheers, Paul.
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GTR003121
Well-Known Member
M68
From what I have seen on other Impact grenades such as the M26A2 and M57, the markings are a bit different. "GRENADE, HAND, FRAG, IMPACT WITH DELAY OVERRIDE M**(grenade type) *-**(date) COMP B LOT **-**-**"
Of course its easier to fit all that on a Lemon body, so it may have been different on the M33/M67 bodies. The early Impact types(M33A1/M26A2/M59) had the M217 with red spoon, sometimes being ink marked or stamped with IMPACT on the lever. The later types(M57/M68) had an updated version of the M217 with the gold/OD lever having IMPACT embossed into it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but this is generally it.
Here are a couple pics of my own M68.
From what I have seen on other Impact grenades such as the M26A2 and M57, the markings are a bit different. "GRENADE, HAND, FRAG, IMPACT WITH DELAY OVERRIDE M**(grenade type) *-**(date) COMP B LOT **-**-**"
Of course its easier to fit all that on a Lemon body, so it may have been different on the M33/M67 bodies. The early Impact types(M33A1/M26A2/M59) had the M217 with red spoon, sometimes being ink marked or stamped with IMPACT on the lever. The later types(M57/M68) had an updated version of the M217 with the gold/OD lever having IMPACT embossed into it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but this is generally it.
Here are a couple pics of my own M68.
Attachments
Joe,
I am doing this off the top of my head, but I think what you have is the M59, or basically the M33A1 before redesignation. The M59 is identical to the M68, but without the fuze safety clip. The body of the grenade should have yellow stencilling that should say GRENADE, HAND, FRAG, IMPACT on the first line; and the Lot number and COMP B on the second line.
The M217 fuze has always interested me. According to the manuals it should be either OD or red with the word "IMPACT" raise embossed on the top right side of the handle. I never saw one marked delay, but can't say they weren't either. My mystery starts with the red one I have that has no IMPACT or anything else on it except that the top is stencilled with the proper ink lot number, etc. for Milan Arsenal in 1962. I also have two that are plated a very light green (I would not call it OD) that has the IMPACT on the handle and is ink stencilled on top FUZE M217 LS-DZ-1049 4-67. There were obviously more variations of the fuze than the manual accounts for.
Bob
I am doing this off the top of my head, but I think what you have is the M59, or basically the M33A1 before redesignation. The M59 is identical to the M68, but without the fuze safety clip. The body of the grenade should have yellow stencilling that should say GRENADE, HAND, FRAG, IMPACT on the first line; and the Lot number and COMP B on the second line.
The M217 fuze has always interested me. According to the manuals it should be either OD or red with the word "IMPACT" raise embossed on the top right side of the handle. I never saw one marked delay, but can't say they weren't either. My mystery starts with the red one I have that has no IMPACT or anything else on it except that the top is stencilled with the proper ink lot number, etc. for Milan Arsenal in 1962. I also have two that are plated a very light green (I would not call it OD) that has the IMPACT on the handle and is ink stencilled on top FUZE M217 LS-DZ-1049 4-67. There were obviously more variations of the fuze than the manual accounts for.
Bob
Francesco_Dif
Well-Known Member
GTR003121
Well-Known Member
Forgot about the jungle clip, this is another feature that separates the later models(M57/M68) from the earlier types(M26A2/M33A1/M59).
Dano, as far as I know the complete Impact types and fuzes are very rare. EODGUY can probably give a better assessment on that though, as he's been in the game a while compared to me.
Dano, as far as I know the complete Impact types and fuzes are very rare. EODGUY can probably give a better assessment on that though, as he's been in the game a while compared to me.
According to the paperwork from Picatinney that the museum has this is the M68 ... Now saying that, there paperwork has been known to be wrong. These are from the Picatinny Arsenal Museum that was sent to Abderdeen Musuem.
Joe
Joe
Joe, The TM43-0001-29 that I have , dtd. June 1994 has it on page 2-17. It also has the M33A1/M56, all with the M217 Impact Fuze. The only thing missing from it that would make it a M68 is the "Jungle Clip". Injun Gulch should have that pub. Oh, Bud says HI!!
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V40
Well-Known Member
Dan,
according to my book they both have the same bodies, same lethal radii, same explosive (Composition B). The only difference is in the fuze. The M68 has a M217 fuze, whereby the M67 has a M213 fuze. A M213 fuze is standard on the M68. This fuze has a back up should the electrical Impact fail by not hitting something hard. This back-up is just a normal 4.5 second standard on other grenades. This fuze is very interesting in how it works and has an almost perfect reliabllity score. The fuze is very special on how they could fit such a sytem inside the grenade in order to make it work both ways. NOTE: I do not have a detailed picture to show. Maybe somebody here has one.
Now days everything that is explosive in any way has a safety clip on it.
Also, the M228 fuze is mostly used in the "Practice Grenades" such as the M62 and M69. It is designed to replicate the firing train. This looks to be a standard fuze. The fuze will also have a detonator and a small black powder charge with it. With this in mine it acts exactly like a regular fuze system with a bang. I have seen, however the M69 practice grenade during a training video that they will just use the detonator whereby it makes a loud pop/crack distinct noise.
Also, an example of how a safety clip changes the grenade(s) model is the M26A2. With the clip on it turns it into the M57 with an "Impact" fuze. The safety clips on these grenades M68, M61, M67, are not interchangeable according to the 1975 Jane's book. The 1990-1991 shows the M67 and the M68 using the exact same clip.
Todays hand thrown grenades in the US Army, Navy, and Marines have changed a few times over the last 60 years or so. They are much more reliable and powerful, with an increase in overall lethality than we had in WWII. You could also see why todays grenades are shaped like a baseball. No brainer on this point.
...And like I have stated before, I am no friend to the 40mm being thrown from a M203 system. Rifle grenades are almost always better! Rifle grenades are not affected by weight and the explosive capability and the shape. With "Bullet Traps' now in play a "Mecar smoke and incendiary long range rifle grenade SMK(WP) - RFL-55 BTU M280" series or the Israeli made BT/AP APERS rifle grenades would do nicely for anybody who is trained to use them in the field.
Please excuse my final lines which are just my opinion and nothing else.
I hope this is clear to all of you and please forgive me for any mistakes I may have made. Fuzes can be very complicated at times.
Mark
V40
"Living Historian on MACVSOG"
according to my book they both have the same bodies, same lethal radii, same explosive (Composition B). The only difference is in the fuze. The M68 has a M217 fuze, whereby the M67 has a M213 fuze. A M213 fuze is standard on the M68. This fuze has a back up should the electrical Impact fail by not hitting something hard. This back-up is just a normal 4.5 second standard on other grenades. This fuze is very interesting in how it works and has an almost perfect reliabllity score. The fuze is very special on how they could fit such a sytem inside the grenade in order to make it work both ways. NOTE: I do not have a detailed picture to show. Maybe somebody here has one.
Now days everything that is explosive in any way has a safety clip on it.
Also, the M228 fuze is mostly used in the "Practice Grenades" such as the M62 and M69. It is designed to replicate the firing train. This looks to be a standard fuze. The fuze will also have a detonator and a small black powder charge with it. With this in mine it acts exactly like a regular fuze system with a bang. I have seen, however the M69 practice grenade during a training video that they will just use the detonator whereby it makes a loud pop/crack distinct noise.
Also, an example of how a safety clip changes the grenade(s) model is the M26A2. With the clip on it turns it into the M57 with an "Impact" fuze. The safety clips on these grenades M68, M61, M67, are not interchangeable according to the 1975 Jane's book. The 1990-1991 shows the M67 and the M68 using the exact same clip.
Todays hand thrown grenades in the US Army, Navy, and Marines have changed a few times over the last 60 years or so. They are much more reliable and powerful, with an increase in overall lethality than we had in WWII. You could also see why todays grenades are shaped like a baseball. No brainer on this point.
...And like I have stated before, I am no friend to the 40mm being thrown from a M203 system. Rifle grenades are almost always better! Rifle grenades are not affected by weight and the explosive capability and the shape. With "Bullet Traps' now in play a "Mecar smoke and incendiary long range rifle grenade SMK(WP) - RFL-55 BTU M280" series or the Israeli made BT/AP APERS rifle grenades would do nicely for anybody who is trained to use them in the field.
Please excuse my final lines which are just my opinion and nothing else.
I hope this is clear to all of you and please forgive me for any mistakes I may have made. Fuzes can be very complicated at times.
Mark
V40
"Living Historian on MACVSOG"
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GTR003121
Well-Known Member
M68
This is the clearest image I could take with my camera of the M217 cutaway diagram. Its from FM 23-30 dated '69.
The early M67 and M68 jungle clips are not interchangeable unfortunately. The M217's shape places the spoon's vertical portion too far from the center line of of the primer. The early M67 clips do not extend far enough out to reach, and the spoon is also too wide at this point anyway. The M68 definitely had its own clip design.
This is the clearest image I could take with my camera of the M217 cutaway diagram. Its from FM 23-30 dated '69.
The early M67 and M68 jungle clips are not interchangeable unfortunately. The M217's shape places the spoon's vertical portion too far from the center line of of the primer. The early M67 clips do not extend far enough out to reach, and the spoon is also too wide at this point anyway. The M68 definitely had its own clip design.
Attachments
Since this has shifted to a discussion of the M217. I wanted to share these images from the Museum as well. It was a VERY large board that, when it worked back in the day, had lights and did some stuff. It doesn't work now.
Also of note, it seems to have been created by the Harry Diamond Labs. I'm sure some of the Proximity Fuze collectors know all about that company since that was their big contribution.
I also added a photo of a cutaway that was in a clear plastic block.
Joe
Also of note, it seems to have been created by the Harry Diamond Labs. I'm sure some of the Proximity Fuze collectors know all about that company since that was their big contribution.
I also added a photo of a cutaway that was in a clear plastic block.
Joe
Attachments
paul the grenade
Well-Known Member
very interesting pics. can someone explain in easy words how this complicated fuze works?:tinysmile_shy_t:
cheers, paul
cheers, paul
V40
Well-Known Member
Paul,
I'll give I will give it a shot:
Impact is embossed on the spoon. In other models the spoon was just colored Red. I will not bore eveyone about the pull ring and the standard fuze.
Here is the Impact fuze and how it works in laymans terms, I hope:
The impact part of the fuze acts by an electrical detonator and a very small thermal thermal pellet. These both will be activated by the electricl and thermal devices inside the powder train.
The thermal power supply requires a second or two to generate sufficient electrica power. After that the detonator will be fired if it hits something hard or it is sharply jolted. If the impact fuze should fail for some reason the powder train will continue to burn and sets off the detonator by a pyrotechnic actions within 7 seconds. This tells me that they are thinking that the fuze is perfectly reliable which it is.
Temperature is the only thing that makes the fuze change in seconds. For example: Temperatures in the fuze at +52C is also lowering the detonator to 3 seconds and the fuze exposed -40C will explode after 7 seconds, with a rough mean of 4 and 1/2 seconds at normal ambient of of 20C.
Note: see GTR002131 better picture which I have and cannot scan it very well. You can also follow along with his right picture fuze.
I hope this is basic enough for every body?
V40
Mark
"Living MACVSOG Historian"
I'll give I will give it a shot:
Impact is embossed on the spoon. In other models the spoon was just colored Red. I will not bore eveyone about the pull ring and the standard fuze.
Here is the Impact fuze and how it works in laymans terms, I hope:
The impact part of the fuze acts by an electrical detonator and a very small thermal thermal pellet. These both will be activated by the electricl and thermal devices inside the powder train.
The thermal power supply requires a second or two to generate sufficient electrica power. After that the detonator will be fired if it hits something hard or it is sharply jolted. If the impact fuze should fail for some reason the powder train will continue to burn and sets off the detonator by a pyrotechnic actions within 7 seconds. This tells me that they are thinking that the fuze is perfectly reliable which it is.
Temperature is the only thing that makes the fuze change in seconds. For example: Temperatures in the fuze at +52C is also lowering the detonator to 3 seconds and the fuze exposed -40C will explode after 7 seconds, with a rough mean of 4 and 1/2 seconds at normal ambient of of 20C.
Note: see GTR002131 better picture which I have and cannot scan it very well. You can also follow along with his right picture fuze.
I hope this is basic enough for every body?
V40
Mark
"Living MACVSOG Historian"
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