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Makers marks on bullets

spotter

spotter

UBIQUE
Staff member
Premium Member
I remember seeing a post on another forum a while ago describing makers marks on the bases of the actual bullet not just the cartridge cases,i think the ones i saw were 303 did they have them on all bulets,can anyone explain this a bit better and add some exammples to this...cheers spotter
 
Most .303 inch ball bullets carry a manufacturers code impressed in the lead of the base. The purpose of this is to identify the manufacturer in case of problems , for example a batch of ammunition failing accuracy proof or a serious weapon malfunction.

This is needed because in wartime components are moved around factories and the factory showing on the headstamp may not have made the bullets or for that matter the case. Remember the headstamp was placed on the .303 case when it was loaded and necked, not when it was made.

Examples of the codes are a star or a broad arrow for Royal Laboratory, K for Kynoch, E for Eley etc. There is a full list in my .303 identification book.

Similarly, from about 1940 (with the expansion of the Ordnance Factories) the maker of the .303 case stamped their identifying code on the inside of the case between the fire holes.

Prior to this at the end of the nineteenth century a different system was used. You may have seen .303 rounds with a numbered headstamp, e.g. 4 C VI. These represent cases made by private contractors for supply to RL who then loaded them. Similarly, there are cases with both the R^L headstamp and a number, e.g. R^L 5 C II. These are cases made and loaded by RL from metal supplied by contractors. Thus the ammo could be identified by the headstamp:

R^L only - made and loaded by RL from RL metal
R^L and number - made and loaded by RL from contractors metal
number only - loaded by RL into contractors cases.

Going back to the original question, the same system of ball bullet and case marking will be found on .5 Vickers and some other calibres. Obviously the markings cannot be used on tracer and incendiary bullets.

The Germans also marked the base of their 7.9mm bullets in a similar way at least up to the end of WWI.

Hope this helps,

Regards
TonyE
 
thank you for the very detailed but understandable answer to my question Tony,,im going to get a copy of your book ..thank you spotter
 
These are the marks on the base of Royal Laboratory 1942 R^L .380 Revolver bullets:
 

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RL

Royal Laboratory usually used the Broad Arrow as their cypher on the base of bullets, although at various times they have used an asterisk and a circle on .303 bullets.

Regards
TonyE
 
makers marks

Hi the French 8mm lebel bullet is also marked with the manufacturer details & with the month & year date on WW1 examples
RegardsTony
 
I have some WW1 German 8mm with makers marks on the bullets as well...

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Makers marks

There is some excellent details about German WWI manufacturers marks on bullets in the ammunition section of Dieter Storz's superb book on the Mauser 98.

Returning to the British bullet base markings, the list is:

1 Unknown contractor No.1 (probably Eley Bros) on round nosed bullets
1 Government Cartridge Factory No.1 (Mark VII bullets)
2 Unknown contractor No.2 (Round nosed bullets)
3 Unknown contractor No.3 (Round nosed bullets)
3 Government Cartridge Factory No.3 (Mark VII bullets)
6 Unknown contractor No.6
B Birmingham Metals and Munitions Co.
CP Crompton Parkinson
D Dum Dum Arsenal
E Eley Bros.
^ Royal Laboratory, Woolwich. Also found with * or other mark below Broad Arrow)
G Greenwood & Batley Ltd
GB Greenwood & Batley Ltd (usually with "VII" underneath)
K Kynoch
O Royal Laboratory, Woolwich
N Dum Dum, Northern Circuit, sometimes in mirror image (Round nosed bullets)
N Nobel Explosives Ltd, Glasgow (Mark VII bullets)
R R.O.F. Radway Green
RW Rudge-Whitworth Cycle Co.
S Dum Dum Southern Circuit
U Reminfgton UMC.

There may be others but I have not seen them.

Also, don't forget that the insides of most WW2 and later .303 cases have the initial of the factory that made the case stamped between the fire holes. This is also true of .50 Vickers cases.

Regards
TonyE
 
The old lead muzzle loading rounds for the Pattern 1853 Enfield had some makers marks in the cavity of the round..not all but some had...usually an "L" then a number..I have dug a few like that.

Dean
 
Makers Mark on Bullet Bases

I have been making a bit of a study on these marks over a few years and this is to add to those not already listed for 303 British.
VC on Australian Mark II
VI or 6 on Australian Mark VI
c or C on New Zealand on Mark VI and VII
7 on Australian Mark VII or 7 1918-1945 in variations of font
F noted on 1950's Australian MF
KN on Kings Norton, plain or logo style
Arrow through DC on Canadian DC VI
8 pointed Star on DC 41
8 spokes on DAC 1941
4 pointed Star on DI 41
P on Peters P16
U on South African U 41
L on Greenwood Batley 1950's
S on Kirkee 1940's
Triangle on Iraqi 1950's-60's

When looking for the base marks, many are found without any marking at all or are so severely dimpled to be unreadable. Those from earlier years generally had a good buildup of crud and corrosion and are hard to decipher when cleaned. The base marks in most cases are raised but may also be impressed.

CRUD - concreted residue unknown description.

Would be pleased for additions to this list.
LB
 
Markings on 8mm Lebel

Some markings on the bottom of 8mm Lebel bullets that where replacements found in some German 7.92mm cases that arrived today.
 

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Interesting thread, never paid those markings much thought before. Now I'll have to go away and check mine.
 
Base markings

Bullet base marks are important, not only for their original purpose of tracing components in the event of quality problems, but from an historical point of view they can tell us quite a lot about the ammunition supply system.

Whenever I have any query about a round I always pull it to check the bullet base marks.

Regards
TonyE
 
New guy here. Was given a trench craft ashtray with a Ypres badge in the center and what I believe are 303 bullets soldered to the rim. These are pulled bullets that have base markings. First is ARS on top edge, D in center and 3-14 on lower edge. Second is TE on top edge, ACO in center and 31 on bottom edge. Third is ARS on top, J in center and 2-14 on bottom. Last is unmarked. All look the same. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Fred
 
Astro350 - These are French 8mm Lebel bullets.

The first was made at "ARS", Atelier de construction de Rennes, with metal supplied by "D", Societe Electro-mecanique de Dives in "3-14", third quarter 1914.
Second was made at "TE", Cartoucherie de Toulouse with metal supplied by "ACO", unknown. The date is probably "3 1?" rather than "31".
Third is made at "ARS", Rennes as above, with metal by "J", unknown, in "3-14" as above. If the "J" is a badly stamped "I" then the supplier is at Issy.

Regards
TonyE
 
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