Mills No36 Mk2 Drill-Cutaway

[roller63]

This is a bit of a strange one, a cutaway Mills No 36 Mk 2 made from a drill grenade. It looks like on official job, the paint is thick and looks old, and is quite worn through handling. unusually the det holder is at the back of the opening and cannot be seen. Perhaps it was made from a cracked body ?The base plug has the Mk2 larger threads and is marked : No 36 Mk II and SEG 9/42. I hope you can see in the pics that there is a piece of wire between two extra holes above the lever to retain it when thrown (before it was sectioned) the body is made by VADIS and the centre tube by Kendrick. Tony.

 

[gothica7]

Nice gren Tony, i havnt seen a mark 11 sectioned before.

Also i think there is a bit of controversy as to what stipulates a mk 11 36. Some say it has to be a drill gren body with the forward facing lugs [not strengthened as this is only a body design]. Others thats its any drill gren with a mk11 base plug. I am of the view that its only a mk 11 36 if its a drill gren with the 5 holes of any body shape as long as it has the steel base plug with the enlarged hole. Any other type of gren with a mk 1 base plug is a mk 1 and nothing else. J P & S typically made a lot of gren bodies with the forward facing lugs and these dont add any strength to the gren body or lugs in an engineering way. In order to strengthen the lugs they would have to made much thicker and these can snap off just as easily is struck hard enough. I have tried it with damaged bodies of both types and both broke easily enough when hit with a similar sized hammer. Live mk 11? I dont think so as to have 2 different systems in a battlefield scenario would not work. Sorry Sir, i cannot fire the Mills as i have got the wrong gas check would never have been allowed.

Andy

 

[roller63]

Hi Andy,
I agree with you, the only Mk 2's I have seen have been drill grenades, with the larger threaded hole in the base plug for the larger thread on the gascheck plate for repeated use. I also believe that the wire above the safety lever is another Mk2 feature ? all the baseplugs I have seen have been made by the same company. Do you have a Mk2 gascheck plate ?
Tony.

 

[gothica7]

Hi Tony,

some drill grens have an extra bit of wire or pin to hold the lever down on firing from a burns cup, i havnt got one but ive seen mk 1s for sale occasionally on ebay and i will be keeping a look out for one at the War n Peace show on Wednesday. Never seen one on a mk2 but ime sure they were there.
I have a mk 2 gas check with the larger thread and yes most of my base plugs are also made by SEG, Southern Engineering Group based around Brighton. I have also got one marked SMC which i believe may be Australian, maybe the experts on the forum can tell me. Its dated 1941 and has much deeper embossed markings than the others. got it off Paul the Grenade a year or so back on ebay [otherwise known as the dark side] but dont tell him. I would love to have a go firing a gren from a Burns Discharger cup but would need a real live SMLE to do it. My DEACs have all been too well mullered to be of any use.


Andy

 

[FNG61]

[ I have also got one marked SMC which i believe may be Australian, maybe the experts on the forum can tell me. Its dated 1941 and has much deeper embossed markings than the others.

Hi Andy. Could I trouble you for a picture of your SMC marked Mills? Ive seen quite a bit of ordnance marked SMC and it has been US WW2 ( I could probably show a picture or 2 of the markings) and it has been my understanding that SMC is Singer Manufacturing Company, the sewing machine manufacturer. I collected sewing machines for a while (still have dozen or so kicking around) and like that there would be "crossover" collectables in ordnance. Singer had a plant in England as well as maybe Australia(probably a few other countries as well).




I would love to have a go firing a gren from a Burns Discharger cup but would need a real live SMLE to do it. My DEACs have all been too well mullered to be of any use.


Andy[/quote]

I ended up with an EY SMLE and cup at about the same time they were dismantling a railroad telegraph line near here. I hiked the railroad hoping to find some rare, early, glass insulators but all that was laying around were the modern, vandal proof, rubber ones which are worthless and nobody collects. But soon I was scouring the weeds for as many as possible because they were bullet shaped and fit perfectly in a Burns cup and should make an ideal projectile. Id got a bag of tennis balls and blanks from the guy I bought the rifle from and next time I got to the states finally got to try it out. Shooting tennis balls was kind of wimpy ( it would be more fun if somebody was shooting them back at you) but those Continental Rubber Works insulators were a hoot. They were alot heavier. Most of the time they would come out tumbling but occasionaly one would fly straight and it would zoom down range like a fish, wobbling from side to side. The recoil wasnt bad at all and they could be hip shot with ease. The noise wasnt bad either and later in the day back at my buddies place we were shooting them in his back yard, straight up in the air and trying to get them to land in the pool. Ive since picked up the grenade launcher adaptor for the No4 Lee Enfield and want to see if that makes those Continentals fly any truer off a spigot than out of a cup. Next time I get to the states...... Rob

 

[gothica7]

Hi Rob,
i am envious of you that you have fired a gren from a Burns cup using an EY rifle, however i am sure that using a real Mills you would really damage yourself badly firing from the hip.

The SMC plug came with a rather mullered no 36 mk 2 that had been converted into a table lighter, all ground down etc and i have put it onto a much better mk2 in original if a bit worn condition. If you would like to pm me i would be happy to send you some pictures of either or both grens or can post them on the forum if you wish. Will have to be on Friday or later if thats ok?

Andy

 

[FNG61]

Hi Andy. I approached using that launcher the same way you approach a horse you dont know; like it may kick you in the head. Id seen that picture in the Landers book of the guy squinting and flinching befor he fires his EY and wasnt taking any chances. But its like a big pop-gun. Ive talked to people who have fired Cast cement Mills from the Burns cup and THAT is a different story. They warn to make sure that the cup vent is pointing away from you when you attach it to the rifle or you will get an unpleasant blast in the face when you fire it.
Go ahead and post the SMC plug and grenade photos here when you get a chance, looking forward to seeing them. You can PM me anytime.
Rob

Hi Rob,
i am envious of you that you have fired a gren from a Burns cup using an EY rifle, however i am sure that using a real Mills you would really damage yourself badly firing from the hip.

The SMC plug came with a rather mullered no 36 mk 2 that had been converted into a table lighter, all ground down etc and i have put it onto a much better mk2 in original if a bit worn condition. If you would like to pm me i would be happy to send you some pictures of either or both grens or can post them on the forum if you wish. Will have to be on Friday or later if thats ok?

Andy

 

[gothica7]

Hi Rob,

here are the pictures of the 36s and the SMC plug.
Both are Mk 2s, the right hand gren is a conversion to a table lighter and its what the SMC plug came with. I have transfered it to another Mk 2, paintwork somewhat worn. Both grens were made by Joseph Parkes & Sons, Willenhall, Staffs.

Andy

 

[roller63]

Nice plug Andy, at least the writing is deep and crisp, most of the Mk 2 plugs that I have seen have poor markings. the segments on the one converted to a lighter look shallow, do you think it has been sanded down, maybe to remove pitting ? Tony.

 

[gothica7]

Hi Tony,

the 'lighter' 36 has been heavily ground down to make it a bit easier in the hand. In fact i reccon they should have used a normal mk 1 instead. Even the 5 holes have been welded up so someone has spent a good deal of time on it. I believe a lot of Mk 2s were modified like this. I think they had a lot left over from the war.
This brings me to another point re the Mills gren and the Burns cup discharger. I have a mate whos Dad served in the 8th Army in North Africa during the last war and he was never trained on it, never saw it used all the way through his army career and i reccon it wasnt used very much at all. Maybe initially, yes but not from 1943 onwards and maybe not in certain theatres.The 2 in mortar would have taken over from the Mills as a rifle gren in every way and was much more versatile and then of course there was the Piat which did a much better job than the no 68 gren which was also fired from the Burns cup. My mates Dad never saw a no 68 gren either.
Just some thoughts.

Andy

 

[FNG61]

This brings me to another point re the Mills gren and the Burns cup discharger. I have a mate whos Dad served in the 8th Army in North Africa during the last war and he was never trained on it, never saw it used all the way through his army career and i reccon it wasnt used very much at all. Maybe initially, yes but not from 1943 onwards and maybe not in certain theatres.The 2 in mortar would have taken over from the Mills as a rifle gren in every way and was much more versatile and then of course there was the Piat which did a much better job than the no 68 gren which was also fired from the Burns cup. My mates Dad never saw a no 68 gren either.
Just some thoughts.

Andy[/quote]

Hi Andy. Thanks for posting the SMC plug picture, it's a beaut. Probably made by the Singer Manufacturing Company at their Clydebank Scotland plant.
As for the Burn's cup and it's war record; enclosed is a photo (Imperial War Museum SE 3094), part of a series, that shows men of the 6/7 Rajput Rifles on 23 Feb 1945 escorting Shermans of the 17th Division during the advance on Meiktila, Burma. In a few of the photos you can see the wire binding of the EY SMLEs that a couple of the men carry. But I was unable to discern any Burn's cups or the webbing that might have held them. This is the only photographic record Ive seen of the EY or Burn's cup in WW2. Always interested to see others. The photo is from "Images of War: Sherman Tank" by Gavin Birch and is a great book.
BFN Rob