Mk1 A/P Training Shrapnel Mine info please

[spotter]

Mk1 A/P Training Shrapnel Mine
Does anyone have any information on the Mk1 training shrapnel mines. I was helping someone who works in clearance with some info and have found reference to them and found a photo here on bocn of a practice one but other than that nothing to say how the training/practice version worked.
Was it just an inert version for classrooms ? Did it contain pyrotechnics emit smoke ? did it project into the air the same as the live version ?
Any info on the training/practice version ?
Thank you
Allan

The attached images are all i have found of a practice training version and were posted by member kiwieod in 2015

 

[sgdbdr]

The shape of the outer canister is Mk2's

 

[BMG50]

Mk 1 and Mk 2 difference in the lever length and pocket depth. I believe the Mk 1 mine didn't allow enough time for it to bound high enough to be effective, hence the Mk 2 with longer lever and different det.
Not sure of a training one, most probably the same colours as another type of practice or drill mine of the time. The only practice bounding mine the British used was the concrete MD made British training S-mine that has an igniter that gave a flash. https://www.lexpev.nl/minesandcharges/europe/unitedkingdom/britishsmine.html my contribution to Lexes site about this mine. I think they would have trained with this to disarm such a mine. With the British shrapnel mine i think the training would be to show how it worked and the best way it was laid and and set up etc.

 

[BMG50]

Reference to a practice training mine on another thread, the practice was black with yellow band only used for mine laying.

 

[AE501]

Mine, Shrapnel, Empty , Fuzed, Inert.

A supply of empty bodies with all the components necessary for laying training, but with no live components were issued.

There was no provision of Ballistite cartridges for use with this inert mine and no detonator.

Having trained at laying the mine until bored witless in true military fashion, it was possible to use a standard.303" blank cartridge in lieu of the Ballistite cartridge, which made things more interesting, by tripping the wire. The mine went about 9" up in the air.

Using the mine for laying training , makes it for drill purposes, but if you introduce a live component then it is being used for practice.

I think that the above designation was carefully chosen.

 

[spotter]

Thank you all for your replies and the information you provided
Regards
Allan

 

[BMG50]

What was the normal height using the proper Ballistite cartridge.

 

[AE501]

3 to 4 feet. That was the Mine Mk1 which had the Fuze Inst.
Nothing was said for the Mk2.

 

[AE501]

A 1940 source reveals that the desired operating height was 4 feet and that the variation would have been caused by the Fuze Instantaneous Mk4 length, however slight.
As an aside, the permitted variation in burning time of Safety Fuze No.11 Mk 2 was 27 to 33 seconds per foot. This was further complicated by the fact that one second per foot had to be added with every 1000 feet of altitude, so chemical burning fuze times, were erratic to say the least.
In the second plate, the cross in the circle was the monogram of the filler, the other cross was for the date of filling month and year and the triangle in a circle was the filled lot number.
The green band denoted that the filling was Amatol 80/20. All mixtures, other than Amatol, would also have had a fraction figure above the band.
The projecting cartridge was Cartridge .303" Ballistite H Mk 1z.

 

[Houndsworth]

A 1940 source reveals that the desired operating height was 4 feet and that the variation would have been caused by the Fuze Instantaneous Mk4 length, however slight.
As an aside, the permitted variation in burning time of Safety Fuze No.11 Mk 2 was 27 to 33 seconds per foot. This was further complicated by the fact that one second per foot had to be added with every 1000 feet of altitude, so chemical burning fuze times, were erratic to say the least.
In the second plate, the cross in the circle was the monogram of the filler, the other cross was for the date of filling month and year and the triangle in a circle was the filled lot number.
The green band denoted that the filling was Amatol 80/20. All mixtures, other than Amatol, would also have had a fraction figure above the band.
The projecting cartridge was Cartridge .303" Ballistite H Mk 1z.

Old thread and it looks like AE501 is no longer with us. Sad if true. But I thought this a good place to ask about Shrapnel Mine markings. I am painting a Mk. II. Does anyone know if the placeholder symbols on the diagram would work for the Mk. II? I am new to ordnance marking and the next question is out of ignorance - the real info took the place of the placeholders, right? Like where the Cristian cross is on the diagram, would be a date like 10/43 or 10-43? And where the circle with triangle is, would it say something like Lot 6? What is a typical filler monogram? And what goes where the left most "I" symbol is?

Lastly, was Amatol 80/20 so standard for a 1 pound charge mine like this, they didn't need the ratio marking? But could a shrapnel mine have gotten a 60/40 or 50/50 mix which I think were also called Amatol, and if so, would those have the ratio marking? What color paint for that marking on this yellow mine?

 

[BMG50]

When you are marking up they were marked in a shoddy manor, so dont do it neat,

 

[Houndsworth]

When you are marking up they were marked in a shoddy manor, so dont do it neat,

Thanks. Is that "11AE" and is that the code for the person that filled it? Is the "860A" if I am reading it right, a Lot Number?

Any ideas on my Amatol marking questions?

 

[kiwieod]

has anyone got an original mk11 or a photo showing the carry handle which i think is made from wire
i would like to make a replica for mine

 

[Chris]

hope this helps

 

[kiwieod]

heres 2 different types of handles i made.some manuals show both types as do photos of originals,but the one with the handle crossing over the inner case would prevent/impede/delay it leaving the outer case
in the manual field engineering and mine warfare,mines ,individual mechanisms 1947 it says
"N.B before the mine is laid the leather handle must be removed"
which is odd because the mark 2 had a wire handle
maybe during the war to save time they didnt remove the handle,also if you were picking up the mines and moving them you still had a handle

 

[kiwieod]

mine also shows signs of being black with a yellow stripe as BMG50 says,also it has no screws on the bottom holding the inner case to the outer case so it must have been made as a practice/training/drill mine

 

[BMG50]

Interesting to note that you have a casting line on the base, plus a casting logo on the body. The body looks like its been through a number of painting processes.
I thought that the wire handle was more wire cable ie flexible as these mines usually came in a wooden box of 4, would be difficult getting the lid on with stiff wire handles.

 

[kiwieod]

BMG50,this is the only example i have ever seen in person,have you seen different castings,ie no seam
yes evidence of quite a few paint jobs
in an old post by AE501 it shows quite alot of info on these mines and their differences

Bounding Mine Mk.2, WW2 British

Cutaway model of a British WW2 bounding AP Mine Mk2. The mine consists of a cast iron ‘bucket’ with a carying strap in which the mine is placed. Inside the bucket a cast Iron mine body is placed with a cast iron centre piece. The centre piece houses the threaded holes for the two fuzes; the pull...

www.bocn.co.uk

including the wire handle,22in. of stranded steel,iron or brass wire

 

[BMG50]

I must have missed the info posted by AE501. I know that they were using these mines to the end of the war as there are accounts of SAS units dropped way ahead of the Normandy front on the border of France and Germany to cause havoc behind German lines. I came across some bits on a stall at a show for my mine that was found in a area eventually taken over by the Americans that was previously where these SAS units were. The rarity of these mines most probably stems from the fact that most ended up in the middle east in post war years when the UK was supplying these countries getting rid of old stock and surplus, thats where most Britsh mine of WW2 ended up. You usually see this in footage from middle east war when they clear up a battle area.

 

[BMG50]

I noticed that the carrying strap on the Mk2 mine is removed before laying in the ground.