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My beltring buy Flascheneismine 42
- Thread starter Panzerknacker
- Start date
Hello, i think that this bottle when it has no SA markings in the glass an original bottle is, When i first came to Finland about 15 years ago they had 5000 pieces on stock, mostly they were all SA, but i have seen also original wooden boxes original German dated 1942 with original German Bottles, even at that time you saw the kristals of the explosives still in the bottles, at that time i pickes out about 500 pieces, some in the original boxes, now 15 years later the Finnisch army has oerhaps 100 left, guess were the rest is, regards Ben
When i had the luck to be ask if i would like to see all the items the Finnisch Army had on stock about 15 years ago i saw many Bottles German made and Finnisch, the strange thing was that most of the Bottles without SA were packed in German Boxes, not the finnisch boxes but German boxes, would it not be possibel that the Germans produced the bottles and that the Finns copied them? i am not the expert on Finnisch mines and bottles, also most of the bottles i saw ( about 5000 ) pieces were all destroyed a couple of years ago
Finnish ice mine M/41 is in manuals also called ArSa-mine, coming from name of the inventor Arvo Saloranta ( the same man who also was designing Lahti-Saloranta LMG ). As far as I understand Germans copied the mine and used their designation M/42 on it. There are pictures of definitely German bottles on this forum and those bottles seem to have quite different shape of shoulder.
During WW2 we had a lot of supply exchange with Germany both ways - could it be possible that the unmarked bottles were intended to Germany???
On ordnance items we got from Germany we had our own model markings but in manuals it's always clearly told what is of German origin.
During WW2 we had a lot of supply exchange with Germany both ways - could it be possible that the unmarked bottles were intended to Germany???
On ordnance items we got from Germany we had our own model markings but in manuals it's always clearly told what is of German origin.
F
Fuzeman
Guest
F
Fuzeman
Guest
Nice collection Dave
Nice collection, and nice German bottle
Hi Big Dave,
really nice collection.
Your Ice-Mine is 100% sure the German-made Model M42, clearly to see on the shape of
the shoulders of the bottle and the Long bottle-neck which has towards ist openinig a Kind
of wider seem to prevent the fixing-rope from sliding-over. German-Pattern that I have seen
do not cary any markings in the glass - if You check for further threads here You´ll find one
were it´s mentioned that there´s one specimen with a No.8 on the bottom - I would be glad to
see a photo of this mark. What I did realize is that there some made from colourless glass and
others from clear glass with a green-blue-shade, here soom pics:
Here something on the FINNISH Pattern:
Finnish-made Mines are existing without any markings but also with a mark (mould into the glass)
which is consisting of the letters SA in a square and below the letter P.
More interesting than the markings on the Finnish Mines is that there are
at least 2 different size of the bottles existing, see next photo that the seller
of my specimen did provide to me (I was to late to get the second size bottle,
which seems to be quite rare, I am still having nearly tears in my eyes),
Sorry, got only the photo - without dimensions:
I think this does also answeranother thread here on the platform.
Here some photos of the Finnish Ice-Mine in the original Transport boxes,
check the stamp-marks:
Third Photo from right shows a box in which You see in the right Corner a Starter-Mine with hole in the Cap.
Second type of packing are these thick-walled cardboard tubes (first photo from right).
I also think that material had been going from Finnland to Germany or the other way so that without any
doubt also German remains had been after war in the Finnish stocks - but the Patterns and fabrication are
according my believe to be split to German and FINNSH Manufacture / Pattern (design).
Cheers,
Ralf
ALL here shown MATERIAL is 100% INERT (FFE)
really nice collection.
Your Ice-Mine is 100% sure the German-made Model M42, clearly to see on the shape of
the shoulders of the bottle and the Long bottle-neck which has towards ist openinig a Kind
of wider seem to prevent the fixing-rope from sliding-over. German-Pattern that I have seen
do not cary any markings in the glass - if You check for further threads here You´ll find one
were it´s mentioned that there´s one specimen with a No.8 on the bottom - I would be glad to
see a photo of this mark. What I did realize is that there some made from colourless glass and
others from clear glass with a green-blue-shade, here soom pics:
Here something on the FINNISH Pattern:
Finnish-made Mines are existing without any markings but also with a mark (mould into the glass)
which is consisting of the letters SA in a square and below the letter P.
More interesting than the markings on the Finnish Mines is that there are
at least 2 different size of the bottles existing, see next photo that the seller
of my specimen did provide to me (I was to late to get the second size bottle,
which seems to be quite rare, I am still having nearly tears in my eyes),
Sorry, got only the photo - without dimensions:
I think this does also answeranother thread here on the platform.
Here some photos of the Finnish Ice-Mine in the original Transport boxes,
check the stamp-marks:
Third Photo from right shows a box in which You see in the right Corner a Starter-Mine with hole in the Cap.
Second type of packing are these thick-walled cardboard tubes (first photo from right).
I also think that material had been going from Finnland to Germany or the other way so that without any
doubt also German remains had been after war in the Finnish stocks - but the Patterns and fabrication are
according my believe to be split to German and FINNSH Manufacture / Pattern (design).
Cheers,
Ralf
ALL here shown MATERIAL is 100% INERT (FFE)
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Zorro's picture is very interesting. Normally Finnish ice mines have height of 265 mm, but in some old manual says that height is 300 mm. However I have never seen 300 mm height ice mines.
Starter bottle was height 97 mm and diameter was 57 mm. See attached picture.
The ice mines was packed in 16 compartment crate wooden box. Including was 15 mines and and one compartment was filled with container filling with 15 fuzes.
Started bottles was packed in 60 pcs in another box.
Starter bottle was height 97 mm and diameter was 57 mm. See attached picture.
The ice mines was packed in 16 compartment crate wooden box. Including was 15 mines and and one compartment was filled with container filling with 15 fuzes.
Started bottles was packed in 60 pcs in another box.
Attachments
Hi Zorro,
I have been following this very interesting discussion and here is a picture of one of the 2 Eisminen I have, unfortunately the other one is packed and I can't check neither the colour or the marking, however it's identical in shape, that I am sure of.
This example has the number 8 on the bottom and is of clear glass with some kind of blue-green shade to it.
You can also see the crude molding mark at the bottom of the bottle.
I have been following this very interesting discussion and here is a picture of one of the 2 Eisminen I have, unfortunately the other one is packed and I can't check neither the colour or the marking, however it's identical in shape, that I am sure of.
This example has the number 8 on the bottom and is of clear glass with some kind of blue-green shade to it.
You can also see the crude molding mark at the bottom of the bottle.
Hello Tmine35,
thank You for this great Foto and Information on the Starter-Bottles and packing.
I have never seen this Little type of Starter-Bottle before and always thought that the
Finnish type Ice-Mine would use the same size bottle as starter (of cause with other
cap and different fuze than those in the line, comparable as the German Mine).
Can You tell if the Fotos below are authentic, means a second Variation of the
Finnish STARTER-Mine (got the Fotos from the Internet):
Cap-Material of the German Ice-Mine Model M42 is Zinc (non-magnetic), did
check with the one I got. How is it on the Finnish-Type?
Cheers,
Ralf
thank You for this great Foto and Information on the Starter-Bottles and packing.
I have never seen this Little type of Starter-Bottle before and always thought that the
Finnish type Ice-Mine would use the same size bottle as starter (of cause with other
cap and different fuze than those in the line, comparable as the German Mine).
Can You tell if the Fotos below are authentic, means a second Variation of the
Finnish STARTER-Mine (got the Fotos from the Internet):
Cap-Material of the German Ice-Mine Model M42 is Zinc (non-magnetic), did
check with the one I got. How is it on the Finnish-Type?
Cheers,
Ralf
Hello doppz92,
thank You for Your reply, I know the matter that exactly the item the You want to have a look at
is packed away - from myself. This is also the reason why I couldn´t provide a photo in which You
see the Finnish Model next to the German Model - for having a better compare.
I am glad You did re-confirm the mould-in number on the bottom. I guess this is here similar like
the markings mould into the Glasmine 43 (here You find plenty colour-shades and markers).
Cheers,
Ralf
thank You for Your reply, I know the matter that exactly the item the You want to have a look at
is packed away - from myself. This is also the reason why I couldn´t provide a photo in which You
see the Finnish Model next to the German Model - for having a better compare.
I am glad You did re-confirm the mould-in number on the bottom. I guess this is here similar like
the markings mould into the Glasmine 43 (here You find plenty colour-shades and markers).
Cheers,
Ralf
Yes, figures, it's always when you need something that you realize you put it away...
I have a question that's bugging me though: these numbers on glass objects are there to identify the mould, in case there's a fault in the manufacturing process, so if there's a number "8" mould, it means logically there are another 7 of them, numbered 1 to 7. Do you know of other numbers or does anyone have a German bottle with a different number?
I have a question that's bugging me though: these numbers on glass objects are there to identify the mould, in case there's a fault in the manufacturing process, so if there's a number "8" mould, it means logically there are another 7 of them, numbered 1 to 7. Do you know of other numbers or does anyone have a German bottle with a different number?
I'm afraid that Zorro's picture are not authentic. Blasting cap holder looks German, see in picture what Finns used.
Many years Finnish Army sold empty bottles in crates. As I said before mines packed in crates 15 pcs, one compartmed was filled with fuzes. Army destroyed fuzes and filled one bottle to get crate complete.
Starter mines was packed separately, not in each crate needed starter mine. Usually mines used in more that 100 pcs. Strarted mines was used when necessary.
I have 2 original manuals, dated in 1941 and 1943. Actually the small bottle came in 1943, in 1941 they used the big bottle as starter. But starter caps was packed separately in 20 pcs.
Finnish caps were made of steel.
Edit: I found a picture of starter mine with electric blast cap. On side is a box for 15 ice mine fuzes, which is in crate. Yellow color means that is for training use only.
Many years Finnish Army sold empty bottles in crates. As I said before mines packed in crates 15 pcs, one compartmed was filled with fuzes. Army destroyed fuzes and filled one bottle to get crate complete.
Starter mines was packed separately, not in each crate needed starter mine. Usually mines used in more that 100 pcs. Strarted mines was used when necessary.
I have 2 original manuals, dated in 1941 and 1943. Actually the small bottle came in 1943, in 1941 they used the big bottle as starter. But starter caps was packed separately in 20 pcs.
Finnish caps were made of steel.
Edit: I found a picture of starter mine with electric blast cap. On side is a box for 15 ice mine fuzes, which is in crate. Yellow color means that is for training use only.
Attachments
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