My Mills No 5s

[pointblank0]

Hello all.
Thought I wouls start putting some pics on of my collection while I have a spare few minutes.

Here are my Mills No5s. Some good, some not so good, but I find it hard to part with them if you know what I mean.

Also, I have attached a couple of 23s. A MK1 (in terrible condition but bought because it has the early type lever with the pin hole).

The other is a drill 23 MK3 in very good condition. The only problem with this is that the base plug is incorrect and is stamped CAV Mills MK2.

If anyone has a MK3 base plug by A Kenrick and Sons, I would be very interested.

Also, appologies if this link is already on the site, but a useful website for grenade markings and makers - http://members.shaw.ca/dwlynn/Markings.htm#British and Commonwealth

I'll post more of my collection later.

 

[pointblank0]

No23s

Oops,
Forgot to add the 23 pics. Not very good with computers!

 

[gothica7]

Oops,
Forgot to add the 23 pics. Not very good with computers!

Hi bud,

very nice piccies, you have a nice collection of grens.
Just out of interest, how do you know your 23/3 isnt a no 36 with a No 23 Mk 2 base plug? Sorry, i dont mean to be a bit cheeky asking you this but the 2 gren bodies will be identical and you cannot tell the difference.
Wish you luck with the 23/3 base plug, very hard to find.

Andy

 

[paul the grenade]

some nice grenades there mate. lets see some more pics.
Cheers, paul.

 

[staples57]

Welcome to the B.O.C.N.
Very nice collection of early Mills bombs!
I second Paul, allow us to drool over more photos of your collection.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[pointblank0]

That's a very good question. I don't really know why I hadn't thought of that. I can't stop thinking about it now. The only noticable thing I can think of for the moment is that the Grenade that we are talking about, has much more prominent segments cast than my 36s. I don't know if this is just coincidence as I only have 4 No36s to compare with. I also noticed that there is an inverted rim on the grenade filler hole which my 36s don't seem to have. I'll attach a pic to show you what I mean. Good point though mate, although with a MK3 base plug on, nobody will tell the difference anyway

The 36 on the left is Canadian, but seems exactly the same as my others.
Shame the filler plug is mashed up. This was like this when I bought it about 15 years ago, I still haven't got round to drilling it out and replacing it!

 

[Bonnex]

... although with a MK3 base plug on, nobody will tell the difference anyway

...!

Unless they see the holes...

 

[gothica7]

Unless they see the holes...

Hi Norman,

so, the drill no 23 Mk 3s didnt have the 5 holes then?

I have seen them painted white but i cant remember if they had the holes or not. If this is the case then the OPs gren is in fact a No 36, is that correct.

Andy

 

[Bonnex]

No 36 Practice and Drill

Hi Norman,

so, the drill no 23 Mk 3s didnt have the 5 holes then?

I have seen them painted white but i cant remember if they had the holes or not. If this is the case then the OPs gren is in fact a No 36, is that correct.

Andy

Andy,

Its a bit complicated in the detail (eg No 36s converted from No23s) but simply put the No 36 Practice (Drill notation applied in WW2) was able to be Zinc coated (1917/18), then painted white (cannot remember when), then holes added in manufacture or retrofitted by unit armourers (from about April 1936). Basically the 23 was well out of service by the time holes were a feature.

As you know markings on the centre piece might give a clue to the period of manufacture.

 

[gothica7]

Very interesting Norman,

So, i have a couple of 36s, one of which has been zinc coated and did have some white paint but both have the 5 holes. Both came with WW 1 base plugs, aluminium centre tubes with no markings but both Gibbons bodies dated 1918. I just assumed that the 5 holes were added during WW1. I do like to collect the practice/drill grens due to the fact that they will all have been well used in training soldiers, if only they could talk. It will be a rare gren then to be a WW1 one, painted white with no holes.
Will keep searching and thanks for the information.

Andy

 

[Bonnex]

Practice & Drill Grenades

Very interesting Norman,

So, i have a couple of 36s, one of which has been zinc coated and did have some white paint but both have the 5 holes. Both came with WW 1 base plugs, aluminium centre tubes with no markings but both Gibbons bodies dated 1918. I just assumed that the 5 holes were added during WW1. I do like to collect the practice/drill grens due to the fact that they will all have been well used in training soldiers, if only they could talk. It will be a rare gren then to be a WW1 one, painted white with no holes.
Will keep searching and thanks for the information.

Andy

Andy,

I would say that your examples had a long life in the military hence the 'several generations' of paint and holes; I cannot be sure of course but you might be able to tell if the holes were drilled by an armourer rather than during manufacture.

It is an area worthy of more research, particularly if you add in the Home Guard extemporised items and dominion/colony designed articles. Attached is a picture (no dealers to peep please :tinysmile_shy_t of the base of an Indian Pattern practice grenade (No 5 type) made at Kirkee in WW1 - worth looking out for.

 

[gothica7]

Hi Norman,

i would think that the holes drilled in my 1918 gren bodies would have been later armourer additions, cant see any marks in the centre tubes though so dont know that they are original to the grens however i am very pleased to have learned a bit more about the Mills bomb from you.
Another thing that gets me going is the[a] theory about the size of the pinholes in 36s.Initially i always thought that small pinholes indicated a WW2 gren, larger ones being from WW1. All my WW1 grens with dated bodies have the larger hole and all my[so called] WW2 bodies have the smaller hole. Is this a way of determining the age of the body? I often discuss this point with a mutual friend.

Andy

 

[Bonnex]

Dating a No 36

Hi Norman,

i would think that the holes drilled in my 1918 gren bodies would have been later armourer additions, cant see any marks in the centre tubes though so dont know that they are original to the grens however i am very pleased to have learned a bit more about the Mills bomb from you.
Another thing that gets me going is the[a] theory about the size of the pinholes in 36s.Initially i always thought that small pinholes indicated a WW2 gren, smaller ones being from WW1. All my WW1 grens with dated bodies have the larger hole and all my[so called] WW2 bodies have the smaller hole. Is this a way of determining the age of the body? I often discuss this point with a mutual friend.

Andy

Oh dear Andy, my recollection is that the safety pin hole size for the 36 didn't change being 0.092L to 0.098H from 1917 to 1969 but I have lent my later drawings to a chum (the 1969 spec was used for the last British production in 1972) so I cannot give you chapter & verse. I've seen comments about it in the past but didn't like to interfere. There has always been a lot of speculation about telling what number and date a Mills grenade is, some of which is not borne out by the specifications and drawings that were issued to guide manufacture (for British manufacture that is). I think the centre-piece is probably the best general guide to working our the 'era' of a standard No 36, providing it is contemporary of course.

 

[gothica7]

I thought you would say something like that Norman.

I will just continue to mull over it.

Andy