Mysterious shell

[mauser1889]

Mysterious shell to me
I believe it is a 100 mm but I can't find it anywhere.
It is German made, at least the casing.I think they originally match (casing/shell); there is an identical one in the Army Museum in Brussels (Belgium) but there is no Identification .
At first I thought it was Austro-Hungarian for the Skoda M14 cannon, but I didn't find anything there either.

So do you guys have an idea?

 

[Hoeksel]

I am a shell case guy, no opinion on the projectile. Based on the rim diameter the only shell case I know that has a ~ 111 mm rim diameter is a 88x390R111 for the 8,8 cm C/95 navy gun. But it is lacking Kriegsmarine acceptance marks, I do see 2 typical re-use marks. Maybe a disqualified shell case used from the start as a blank/salute shell case? Official length of the salute shell case is 280 mm so this one is shortened, or we are looking at something yet unknown (it could also be export).

 

[mauser1889]

I am a shell case guy, no opinion on the projectile. Based on the rim diameter the only shell case I know that has a ~ 111 mm rim diameter is a 88x390R111 for the 8,8 cm C/95 navy gun. But it is lacking Kriegsmarine acceptance marks, I do see 2 typical re-use marks. Maybe a disqualified shell case used from the start as a blank/salute shell case? Official length of the salute shell case is 280 mm so this one is shortened, or we are looking at something yet unknown (it could also be export).

hello

thank you for your reply.
personally, I think it is for export or made for captured weapons, but then 1902 is a bit early.
there is a book that supposedly lists all the casings; do you have one like that?

best regards

 

[Alpini]

There are no German WW1 naval cases with a 16 mm primer hole also the case looks like it has a slight neck. I think it is for a exported gun from Krupp or more likely Rheinmetall.

Is there a fuze hole in the shell? If yes, what's the diameter and thread pitch?

 

[Hoeksel]

hello

thank you for your reply.
personally, I think it is for export or made for captured weapons, but then 1902 is a bit early.
there is a book that supposedly lists all the casings; do you have one like that?

best regards

1902 is not early for export, Germany exported before 1900 all over the world and "unknown" shell cases are still being found by collectors.

 

[mauser1889]

There are no German WW1 naval cases with a 16 mm primer hole also the case looks like it has a slight neck. I think it is for a exported gun from Krupp or more likely Rheinmetall.

Is there a fuze hole in the shell? If yes, what's the diameter and thread pitch?

hello
indeed it has a light neck, the mouth of the casing reduces in diameter by about 2 mm
yes it has a fuse and I have that too, the shell must be an HE and it weighs a lot
oddly enough the fuse is identical to a Belgian EP fuse for a Belgian 57 mm but not made in Belgium because of the absence of the E P stamp, only a W.
but it fits in a 57 mm Belgian shell
Germany supplied to Belgium but I have never heard of a 100mm cannon or mortar

 

[Hoeksel]

A friend shared images with me because of this thread with a very comparable shell case of 150 mm length. According him the shell case fits a French primer, which could be Belgium as well.

 

[mauser1889]

1902 is not early for export, Germany exported before 1900 all over the world and "unknown" shell cases are still being found by collectors.

I meant that 1902 is a bit early for a captured weapon. It would have to be from during the war, I think.

 

[Hoeksel]

I meant that 1902 is a bit early for a captured weapon. It would have to be from during the war, I think.

No, Polte Magdeburg exported ordnance to many countries as a commercial product (not Beute).

 

[mauser1889]

A friend shared images with me because of this thread with a very comparable shell case of 150 mm length. According him the shell case fits a French primer, which could be Belgium as well.

Well, it is like two peas in a pod.
I would love nothing more for it to be Belgian, but I don't dare hope for that.I have another photo of a similar one; at least it looks very much like it, including the drive belt.But again, no explanation.....

 

[Hoeksel]

Where did you find your example and where was the last picture taken (I guess in the Belgium army museum)?

 

[Hoeksel]

In the same museum you will also find several 47x158R64 cases by Polte, for Belgium, and I think I have even seen the "M" on one. This 47 mm is supposedly a pre-1900 fortress gun, but I never found proof.

 

[Hoeksel]

Deleted

 

[mauser1889]

Where did you find your example and where was the last picture taken (I guess in the Belgium army museum)?

I bought my shell in Belgium.
The last photo was taken in 2012 at the "Trench of the Dead" museum in Diksmuide.
I believe the shell with casing is also a 100 mm.

 

[mauser1889]

These photos were taken at the Royal Army Museum. The shell on the left is the same as the one I have, and the last time I was at the museum, I photographed the base again.I believe the code X3313 is a numbering system used by the museum itself.
1 N ???
and 6 dots ....reused 6 times

 

[mauser1889]

In the same museum you will also find several 47x158R64 cases by Polte, for Belgium, and I think I have even seen the "M" on one. This 47 mm is supposedly a pre-1900 fortress gun, but I never found proof.

I know that Belgian Congo had 62 Nordenfelt 4c7 (47 mm) cannons in 1908...and they had 14,139 shells for them.I don't have details of the casings, but Nordenfelt is not German so.....
Now I also see that they had a 10c L./20 cannon that was detachable, but is this 100 mm or 105 mm? No idea. but it is German made

 

[Alpini]

So your case also has no primer thread and a french type pressed in primer fits?

 

[mauser1889]

So your case also has no primer thread and a french type pressed in primer fits?

Indeed, there are no threads, and it looks like a French primer fits. the inner diameter is 13 mm, and the larger diameter is 16 mm.
Do you know of a 10 cm L/20 Krupp?