Mystery 37x95 Hotchkiss casing...

[shelldude]

Here are some photographs of an inert U.S. Indian wars era Hotchkiss 37x95 Point detonating fuze HE cartridge. The red painted projectile is inscribed as follows: -MANUFACTURED BY THE WINCHESTER REPT ARMS CO- and -NEW HAVEN CONN U.S.A. HOTCHKISS PATENT NOV 14-76-. The Hotchkiss PD fuze is dated: 9-89. The brass casing is TOTALLY unmarked, it's primer has been detonated and is so tightly attached to the projectile they are inseparable. Do any of our members have a clue who the manufacture of this unmarked shell
casing might be?

Best regards,

Randall

 

[dano1917]

early 37mm

Hi Randall, That is a fine early US 37mm Hotchkiss shell and the projectile is well marked. The lack of a headstamp on shell casing is a bit puzzling to me. Great collectible...Dano

 

[Gspragge]

The casing is -

a standard British 1pdr. case likely pre 1898. If you hold the case in one hand and SHARPLY tap the projectile on the SIDE above the band on the iron body below the fuse with a wooden (best) (or hard rubber) object/mallet a number of times and rotate it you will loosen it. It will pull out with a twisting pull, adding thin oil will help. This will not hurt the case or projectile. Only tap from the side, this gently stretches the case enough to loosen the grip. Or hold the projectile and tap the rim of the case but this is not quite so effective and may take longer.The casing you need it the Winchester made 2 piece case. I hope you find 2, I need one also :tinysmile_cry_t2:

 

[frizzen]

37 x 94 Winchester Round

Actually, I have the same exact round in my collection, Winchester marked projectile in what appears to be an early British case. Now, I'm not so sure. My projectile is still crimped into the case. Yours is the third of these that I have seen. Around 20 years ago at a large gun show in Los Angelas, a fellow had a Hotchkiss revolving cannon on display on a field gun mount with wheels and shield. Strapped onto the shield was another of these rounds, original red paint on a Winchester marked projectile but crimped into an un-headstamped case. One round turning up this way means nothing, two is curious, three is (well, still not proof, but darned close). I also have in my collection a base fuzed Winchester marked projectile (37 x 94) and this one is in a Winchester marked case. Did they load them both ways? Possibly. The fact that three have turned up this way is interesting. The best way to get the projectile out of the case is to use the gravity method. Take two pieces of hardwood with good sharp edges and place them on the rim of the case. With the round upside down, tap the pieces of wood on the floor while holding them tightly against the case (obviously the wood pieces being longer than the round) The wieght of the projectile will cause it to dislodge from the case without damaging the neck. Oh yeah, place a piece of wood or some other such pad for the projectile to fall onto when it comes out. Best to take the fuze out first also to avoid damage..........

 

[Gspragge]

I like that idea

Gravity, I guess use hard wood and make sure it is held tight. I wonder if when the U.S. bought some maxim guns in 1897 they might have bought empty British cases and loaded them with older projectile stocks ? I am not sure how well the wide banded projectiles would work in the higher pressure loading though. The Maxim guns needed a good crimp to keep the head from being pulled out in the belt, not needed in the revolving gun as nothing would pull on the head and only a courtesy crimp needed to keep things together in transit. U.M.C. made 37x94 cases by 1898 and Driggs offered them earlier, so U.S. made case were available ? I have heard ? Winchester made solid drawn 37x94 cases, but have yet to see one. As you say three is becoming a habit ! It could be that the Navy reloaded fired British supplied case with these projectiles, but the red indicates Army black powder fill not Navy. I am unaware of the U.S. Army buying Maxim 1 pdrs. So this is something of a mystery. If this can be proven correct it will certainly make my life easier !

 

[shelldude]

Mystery 37x94 Hotchkiss casing...

Hello Dano, Gordon & frizzen,

Thank you for your comments and the VALUABLE information regarding the identical examples seen of this Hotchkiss 37mm round. I must confess that I'm in no hurry to separate the shell, so I'll leave it as is for now. I have included photographs of another 37x94 round that I have not seen another example of. The blunt point, Hotchkiss base fuzed HE projectile is stamped on the rotating band: MADE BY THE PRATT & CADY CO - HARTFORD CONN. and is dated 3-92 on the projectile base. The 37x94 casing is a Driggs Ordnance Co manufacture and is dated 2-92. Is this combination of projectile and casing correct?

Best regards,

Randall

 

[Gspragge]

Yes it is

Driggs had their own patent regarding the knurling of the projectile body which kept the band from slipping,I suspect the band style is theirs also which became standard on U.S. projectiles. You have a Hotchkiss fuse, there is also a Driggs base fuse, it may have appeared a couple of years later (I have the patent someplace) Driggs competed against Hotchkiss and this is their equivilant to a Hotchkiss base fused common shell. Most of these are in the 37x136r case for the 1Pdr. Heavy deck gun, by Driggs Shroeder and also Hotchkiss made guns. It isn't a Hotchkiss. The 37x94 size Driggs case is much harder to find than the longer one. Yours could be used in the 1pdr. Light deck guns (anybodies) and the revolving cannon.

 

[shelldude]

Hello Gordon,

THANKS AGAIN for your expert assistance regarding the 37mm common projectile and Driggs casing! Have you ever considered publishing a reference book about the 37mm?

Best regards,

Randall

 

[Gspragge]

It is I hope

being worked on, but I haven't heard from the fellow doing it for a while. I sent him the question about the Winchester projectile in what looks like a British casing, no response yet.

I put another two images in my album here, my Driggs are included. Slow progress but I'll get it all up to date.

 

[shelldude]

New album photographs...

Hello Gordon,

WOW, your new album reference photographs are FANTASTIC! When they say "one photograph is worth a thousand words", this is exactly what they mean!
I'm glad to hear that a 37mm reference book is in the making, it's LONG overdue. Your U.S. 37mm base fuze photographs are EXTREMELY helpful, Thanks again!

Take care,

Randall