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Need Help with Grenade ID

I'm not familiar with this type of grenade, but I wanted to say welcome. I bought a couple things from you a few months back and am very happy with them.

Justin Sykes
 
mkubes,

I am puzzeled here on the Markings of that Star surrounded with a partial circle. I can say I have seen this marking before being used by the Communist Chinese along with the North Koreans, especially the NK's.

I would say one of two theories I can give here. The Star with the concentric rings (two, I believe) around it are not complete. This is because to me the the canvas gear came from North Korea. Thier Grenades are probably same also. On the other hand, the canvas is definately a product of the North Koreans,and the grenades were used by the NK's in either during the korean War or they were supplied to the NVA for use; exported.

I am curious to know more about this "Wet Bone Disease", ahhhhhmmmmmmmm grenades that is?


V40
 
I'll throw my two cents in this one, but have nothing to confirm my opinion. I would say, based on the characters I can see that it is Chinese. The stamped characters are very hard to make out, but they do not look like Korean characters. I have seen the star enclosed in a circle on other Chinese items in Vietnam and since then. Does it appear that the grenades were loaded with explosives at any point? I read years ago about the Chinese using small tin cans (which might explain the ridges) as bodies on practice grenades. Never actually saw one of the grenades and I do not have the reference I read. There was no mention of painting the grenades, but it is unusual for any of the Far Eastern Communist Bloc stick grenades to be painted, which makes me wonder if they painted these grenades to identify them as practice grenades. Hopefully someone can make out the characters and come up with a partial translation.
 
I agree, definitely doesn't look Korean (Hongul). I've sent an e-mail to an old colleague, hope to have an answer tomorrow.
 
My be China??

CCFAssaultInstructions.jpg


or Vietnam?
http://go-armynavy.com/index.php/chinese-militaria/2-stick-grenade-pouch-v5.html

or China..
http://www.red-alliance.net/forum/index.php?topic=10569.0


:)
 
I am sticking with the North Koreans. It is highly possible EOD, that this grenade might be one of several that was imported by the North Vietnamese from the North Koreans. I know for a fact that they supplied other weapons and munitions to the North Vietnamese. The canvas with the star in the middle with two rings is still North Korea.
 
I still believe that it is, that is to say that the canvas, is of North Korean manufacturer. The grenades look that they might have been imported to North Vietnam. The North Koreans, EOD, sent a few munitions and weapons to help the cause in North Vietnam. This is without a doubt true.

The grenades look like they may have been sent by the NK's to North Vietnam, or they are fakes. I see one of them has a paint line to paint up to that end of the line. I have not so far, ever seen a NV grenade with a can with circles around them. I could be wrong, but I will stick with my information on this device.

V40
 
I can't help myself but the heads look like self made from tin cans.

Look at the area where the handle is joining the war head. It looks odd.

The paint job is wayy too fresh in particular for deactivated items which are several decades old.

Besides that I have never seen anything the like in any document or in life condition during EOD operations (also not in Vietnam).

The handles have black markings which look like applied by a permanent marker (to define where to paint?), one is painted up to the marking and the other is not (those 2 in the pouch).

I would really like to see some documentation on this one in case it is claimed to be real.
 
I would also like to see the papers on this one also.

I searched my book of Insignia's to the worlds aircraft and it came with the same symbol for the North Koreans.

I also agree that there are some problems I have about the grenades. To many variables.

V40
 
The total story of these grenades may remain a mystery, but I would bet a lot of money that the canvas carrier is Chinese not Korean. The characters are certainly Chinese and the construction is typical of China. I have attached a photo of a Chinese crate of early stick grenades. While the characters are not exactly the same, some are and the layout is the same. The difference in characters could be because of the difference in the grenades or the different ways the Chinese write the same character from person to person or area to area. Unfortunately when the photo was taken they didn't include the entire circle on the left side of the box front so we won't know what was in that circle. I agree the North Koreans use the star in a circle, but so do the Chinese. It is beyond probability that the NK's would produce a carrier and mark it in Chinese. While I agree NK provided ordnance to the North Vietnamese I am not sure how that entered the picture when there was no mention of these being recovered in Vietnam, or anywhere else for that matter. I handled some North Korean ordnance in Vietnam and saw two items in Cambodia in the 90's so I know they were there. Beyond saying the canvas is Chinese, I can only speculate. Like I said before I have read of the Chinese using tin cans to make practice/dummy grenades and their stick grenades (along with the Vietnamese and North Koreans) are very rarely painted in any color other than a black finish. Could they have painted these to identify them as practice or dummy? Never seen one so I can't say. Has anyone seen one of these or read anything on them? Could it be a mismatch of country of origin of the carrier and of the grenades? Certainly. Could these grenades be a total fake? Certainly. The construction, the color, the cap, the thing at the end of the pull cord are all not typical of any Far Eastern stick grenade I have ever seen. Not sure what is in the center of the end cap, but the only grenades I ever recovered in Vietnam with screw-on metal end caps were Chinese. Not sure what caps the North Koreans use though. North Korea is a wasteland of unclassified information on ordnance, even the old stuff. Unless these were sold for a lot of money though, someone went to a lot of trouble to make some fairly nice looking and well made fakes if that is what they are.
 

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I could be wrong, but in my opinion, someone has taken a pair of handles from two chicom grenades (commonly found without the body) and tried to recreate a pair of Viet cong jungle workshop tin-can grenades. I don't believe these are real grenades. The person was probably just trying to make a display. When you see and hold a real tin can grenade, you know its real. They usually have an internal wire fragmentation coil. The canvas carriers are very common. I have seen many different varieties for sale.
pix444211015.jpgcoke-grenade.jpgw6.jpg

Nice Picture EODGUY!
 
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US-Subs said:
I agree, definitely doesn't look Korean (Hongul). I've sent an e-mail to an old colleague, hope to have an answer tomorrow.
Click to expand...

The text is Chinese, it has been translated as "two/three compartment hand grenades with wooden handles". Not certain of the number because the quality of the photo makes some of the characters difficult to read.
 
Need to know your sources. Still think it is of North Korean origin with the Chinese .here I am coming from is this. The North Koreans as we know did their share of providing munitions to the North Vietnamese. All Communists nations were playing in on the War. We must also realize that they also sent their version of the AK-47. So, with all of this kept in mind, I still think that the North koreans made the grenade pouches and sent them to either China and then were sent to NV. North Vietnam at the time of the War was certainly poor by world standards. Then when the Soviets came in to help them they had an Air Forced for sure now. While China was giving them some jet fighters and advisors. Thus it could be of NK manufacture sent to China for the technical and instruction or what type of grenade it is and then shipped across the border on the trail. Possibly more to come.


V40
 
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Attached are some more pics of one of the grenades. Can't get a better picture of the characters on pouch as the are blurry to begin with. Also above the writing is a drawing of a persons head (side view) The marks on the grenade handle are paint, not marker. The paint job is not that great, some thick runs of paint.
Weight 290 grams each. Length 192mm. The set was sold at local militaria show for $60.00
 

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Hi:
Now Im totally sure that they are custom made. You just have to see the pull cord, the end cap and the end cap connector. Well, 60$ is not too much.
 
My 2 cents worth, have seen before ID'd as Vietcong. I guess I shoud add the Vietcong were and had to be industrious as anyone had been before them in war. This was explained to me as a sort of Vietcong petard or an expedient type of grenade. Maybe the can was even a G.I. tin???? dano
 
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