No. 4 or10 mk1 rifle grenade…. But….

[lostmyspoon]

Hi Everyone,

Found this in the bottom of a cabinet in an old antique centre under a pile of bits and pieces, only the wind vane was visible and I only recognised it because of a popular space franchise! It had clearly been in there for a very long time and required about half an hour of wrangling to get the thing out by myself and the elderly assistant. Once out I wasn’t quite sure what I was looking at and after looking over it I was still none the wiser. It had a tag stating “unknown ww2 item” and I considered it might just be something that had been made up as a bit of trench art possibly. I could sense the assistant wanted to get on and so still in two minds I thought it looked cool and if it was nothing I could use the wind vane on another project… plus I didn’t have the heart to say no that’s ok put it back!

Got it home, cleaned up the wind vane which revealed the lettering “Cotton”etc.and confirmed what I had thought, that then led to only one picture on the whole of the web I could find of the No.4 or10.

However, and heres the but, obviously they usually have a rod, but this one has fins instead and have clearly been with it all or most of its life.

Was this an experimental thing or actually used in service? Did it fire from a cup discharger or was there a specialist use like aircraft dropped maybe?

Also any idea on value as I cannot find a single one for sale anywhere, I would also like to see a picture of a complete one to see if I could replace the rusted remnants of the pieces on the fuse end. And if still not asking enough what type of fuse did this type use please?

Thanks in advance

 

[Snufkin]

A nice find, described in the 1916 Admiralty Air Department "Handbook of Aircraft Armament" as Grenade, Rifle, Hale's Type No.4, Adapted for Aircraft. In essence a No.4 grenade with the rifle rod replaced by a fin tail piece, and initially individually dropped over the side of the open cockpit by pilot or observer, and finally dispensed from a custom carrier attached beneath the fuselage. Either way, it was not widely used.

The detonator was the Detonator, Rifle Grenade, Mark I, not dissimilar to that of the far more common No.3 rifle grenade. As for "restoring" the fins, for a scarce item like this it would be sacrilege. Keep it all as original.

 

[lostmyspoon]

A nice find, described in the 1916 Admiralty Air Department "Handbook of Aircraft Armament" as Grenade, Rifle, Hale's Type No.4, Adapted for Aircraft. In essence a No.4 grenade with the rifle rod replaced by a fin tail piece, and initially individually dropped over the side of the open cockpit by pilot or observer, and finally dispensed from a custom carrier attached beneath the fuselage. Either way, it was not widely used.

The detonator was the Detonator, Rifle Grenade, Mark I, not dissimilar to that of the far more common No.3 rifle grenade. As for "restoring" the fins, for a scarce item like this it would be sacrilege. Keep it all as original.

That is awesome, thank you very much indeed, sorry no I didn’t mean restoring the fins, they are fine as they are and stable. It was the nose end and the couple of rusty remnants near the fuse socket I was not sure what they were.

Thanks again, really pleased to know for certain what it is.

 

[jonlandon]

That is awesome, thank you very much indeed, sorry no I didn’t mean restoring the fins, they are fine as they are and stable. It was the nose end and the couple of rusty remnants near the fuse socket I was not sure what they were.

Thanks again, really pleased to know for certain what it is.

The nose end of your example is fitted with its original transit cap.Your have remains of the sheet metal spring that located the det holder when it was fitted in place of the transit cap.Thanks very much for your excellant pictures ,having been working on making copies of the Nos. 4&10 for the last three weeks the pics have answered several questions .What is most interesting is the variations in manufacture

 

[jonlandon]

The nose end of your example is fitted with its original transit cap.Your have remains of the sheet metal spring that located the det holder when it was fitted in place of the transit cap.Thanks very much for your excellant pictures ,having been working on making copies of the Nos. 4&10 for the last three weeks the pics have answered several questions .What is most interesting is the variations in manufacture

The stamped markings in the brass base part are read as a capital letter N surmounted by a broad arrow. Navy markings, your example with its fins were a modification used by the R.N.A.S. for anti Zeppilin /ballon use. Several automatic / multi shot discharge mechanisms were flight tested by Commander Samson later Air Commodore Charles Rumney Samson, CMG, DSO & Bar, AFC (8 July 1883 – 5 February 1931)

 

[Chris]

A drawing

 

[lostmyspoon]

The nose end of your example is fitted with its original transit cap.Your have remains of the sheet metal spring that located the det holder when it was fitted in place of the transit cap.Thanks very much for your excellant pictures ,having been working on making copies of the Nos. 4&10 for the last three weeks the pics have answered several questions .What is most interesting is the variations in manufacture

Thank you, really appreciate your comments. If you need anymore pictures of it disassembled or anything please just say and will do that for you. I don’t suppose you have any pictures of the metal spring do you please? just so I know what it may have looked like.