No.5 Mills Throwing Practice Makers Mark

[stanleyrf89]

Hi, I picked this up at a flea market over the Easter weekend, but I can’t find reference to the manufacturer - any ideas?

it has capital letter R either side of the lugs, and number 2 cast in between the lugs.

all thoughts and observations gratefully received!

 

[Millsman]

It's a rather nice transverse casting from 1915. Also known as a centre cast. Lots of potential makers. The letters are cast marks not makers marks. Great find.

 

[millsbomber]

Irish Grenade (Belfast Committee) picked up a complete one at Detling last year........... Dave

 

[Millsman]

Does that mean my grenade with m below each shoulder is from Belfast?

 

[stanleyrf89]

Thanks gents - so Belfast manufactured, when you say you picked up a complete one, what’s this one missing?


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[Millsman]

Yours is an unfinished casting. No holes drilled for the pin, the filler screw and probably not threaded for the base plug. So it may be that it is a defective casting - often the base plug hole was a fraction off centre, so the work to complete it never took place.

Here's my one with the M's below the two shoulders. There are also similar castings with X on each shoulder.

 

[millsbomber]

That I don't know John, I think Siegfried has 2 Belfast No5s also

 

[Millsman]

That I don't know John, I think Siegfried has 2 Belfast No5s also

With X's. I've seen one close up.

 

[gothica7]

I have a centre cast No 5 with an R on each shoulder, cannot reach it from my wheelchair at the moment ile try and get someone to grab it for me and take a picture, bought on ebay many years ago. I remember it was a slim grenade thats all.


Andy

 

[stanleyrf89]

Thanks Dave, Andy and Millsman.

So would reject castings have ended up as practice grenades?


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[Millsman]

Saw a Belfast no 5 dated 11/15 with G on the space below the shoulders today. So a range of cast letters exists.

 

[Snufkin]

So a range of cast letters exists.

Very much so.

The question is, what makes them the output of the Belfast Munitions Area Committee?



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[Millsman]

The one I saw today had a very nice original Hand of Ulster base plug, as has Mike's and I suspect Dave's has too. What are the odds of a number of grenades with these shoulder marking turning up with the same base plugs - if they were not made in Belfast? Yes many plugs are swapped around but why do theses HoU plugs congregate on grenades with letter marked shoulders?

 

[Snufkin]

Two of the three letter marked bodies I showed above have Ulster base plugs, for which I do not question the provenance of the pairings. I have seen at least one other letter marked body with an Ulster plug, which again I believe to be an original pairing, and I agree the G marked body you saw also has its original plug.

In February I spoke with Dave when he got his R marked body (and incidentally it came with a 1-17 James Reynolds base plug, so an Irish connection there, albeit wrong body) and suggested then that the letters were codes for the score of firms making Mills grenades under the auspices of the Belfast Area Committee. However, while it is nice to believe this, it is not proof positive, though the more examples that turn up, the greater the support for the case.

All we can say at the moment is that it would appear from maybe four or five examples known to us, bodies marked with various letters might well be survivors from the Belfast contract.

 

[Millsman]

When I researched this I found that there were two main foundry sites in Belfast at the time. The SoHo foundary and the Falls Foundry. The latter run by James Combe.

Most of these firms were linked to the manufacture of machines for the Irish Linen trade and may not have been equipped for arms manufacture, but they managed to get it done. Of the 20 firms, the work may have been spread around with some duplication, and would have included crate making, labels, instruction sheets etc as well as making the grenades, but that's conjecture. But I would expect these bodies to be cast by the two firms named above.

 

[Snufkin]

John,

The Falls Foundry of Combe Barbour did make some Mills castings. The MacAdam Brothers' Soho Foundry is a bit less likely as it closed in the 1890s after the death of the last founder, and in WWI the site was occupied by Nesbitt Brothers brass foundry. But perhaps they made filler screws.

At least eight of the 20 firms - including a ship builder, but generally substantial iron and engineering works - actually made body castings, and the rest contributed the various furnishings.

Getting back to the subject of paired bodies and Ulster base plugs, the X marked body shown in post 12 is (or was) in Mike's possession. Along with the M marked body also shown and the G marked body you saw, that makes only three "original" pairings known to us. What I thought was another I have now found I was mistaken - what I had interpreted as a letter L on just one side of the lugs turns out to be a blemish.




Tom.

 

[Millsman]

Tom. The G marked body with its HoU plug was imported from Belgium two months ago.

 

[Fragman]

Hi. I’ve shown this one before, but thought it worth adding to the thread, which has been an interesting read. Cheers

 

[Snufkin]

Hi. I’ve shown this one before, but thought it worth adding to the thread, which has been an interesting read. Cheers

Thanks for showing that one (again). Interesting for the variant of base plug, which I think shows drips of blood from the wrist of the severed hand.

The two images below are the base plugs associated with the X body (post no.12) at left, and M body right.

There now seem to be confirmed four long-time pairings of Ulster base plugs with letter marked bodies. Any more out there?



.


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[Millsman]

I've seen a couple of examples of the blood dripping hand. It's authentic, which suggests possibly two base plug makers in Belfast. I've only ever seen 11/15 and 12/15 dates so far but Tom's plug now takes them back to October.