No1 grenade Mark?

[John Bee]

Hi,
Lately the friend of my daughter acquired a No 1 grenade for me from an old man in the area of Ypres.

First : my No1 Mk2, in my collection for several years: normal size handle, Fragmentation ring in one piece, handle measures 19cm (7.5 inch) No markings, no streamers. Cleaned by former owner or very well made copy? I dont know. Ive seen others on military fairs and they have the same shape and size. (but not price)

New purchase: Frag ring in one piece, handle also. Safety pin is missing. Handle measures 30.5 cm (12 inch) Is this a mark one or two? According to the files of Delhomme a Mk1 should measure 40 cm and the grenades pictured in a previous thread are indeed taller.

Regards,
John
See the pictures.

The lowest is my first NO1 Mk2


From another point of view for better focus. Different brass woodscrews (sunken on lower one) + different hooks


No2 stamped in the wood + strange patterns of stripes (prints of long gone streamers?)


Remains of tiny brass nail + again patterns of stripes


Print of some kind of a clamp

 

[siegfreid]

Nice grenades . The early Mk1's had countersunk screws & usually a makers mark & model number stamped into the wooden handle right at the top just below where the handle enters the body . Millsbomber has some fine examples & may show us a scan of these marks . I think your handle is probably a replacement . Hope this helps.

 

[Fragman]

Here's the markings on a No1 MkIII. It's a bit hard to read, but will give you a good idea where to look for it. Cheers

 

[millsbomber]

Here are my Mk1 & Mk2 handle markings, Dave

 

[Bonnex]

It is always difficult to be certain about IDing things from a photograph, and often not much better when you have the thing in hand but with respect to the handles take a look at these photographs of 'original' material (less one of the tails) and compare the handle shape, the grooves in the handle and particularly the depth, the length of the handle relative to the body length (or to the top of the frag sleeve), the tack locations for holding on the taill. Also note the length of the belt hook. These are all Mark IIs or IIIs. Not illustrated but there is also a Mk I converted which has a shortened Mk I handle bound with cord; and of course a Mark IV (No 18 Mk I) which has the same handle as the Mk III.
I leave it to you to judge whether or not the handles in John's photos are original.

 

[Bonnex]

What would be interesting would be to see under cap of John's two grenades. Although I think one belt hook is recently added (and not long enough) the fact is both are attached per the Mark I design*. If they are Mark Is they are much more interesting irrespective of the handle. The Mark I was filled from the 'top' so there is a closing plate held in place with three screws.

This would be the good news!


*not exclusively

 

[siegfreid]

Norman . Awesome pictures . Enough to make any collector go weak at the knees . Thanks for showing them . As you say , the Mk1's had the top plate fixed in position with 3 screws & , I think , the later ones were soldered in place ? Interestingly , the ones John B has shown were found in the Ypres area . I had several from the same area some years ago & they were all Mk1's . Perhaps they are still being found or came from the same stash .

 

[Fragman]

Here's a MkIII top plate for comparison. Cheers

 

[paul the grenade]

here's my Mk1, 2 and 3 tops, The 2nd 2 are soldered on. i now wonder if the middle one is a converted Mk1??
cheers, Paul.

 

[John Bee]

I purchased the first one (small handle) about 6 years ago from a regular seller in a small caf (pub) around Ypres in a military fair every 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Sunday of the month. Under the cap there’s a disk with two studs.
The long handle is purchased last week on a flea market in a small village near Poperinge (also near Ypres). It belonged to an older man. He had also another one without handle and in much worse condition for sale. He was clearing his collection a little bit. The friend of my daughter called me up and I told him to buy only the one with handle. The head is somewhat incomplete, the disk with the studs is missing and the tiny brass bar for position of the cap too. I was hoping silently this is maybe a transition model between Mk 1 and 2., just like Bonnex mentioned with a shortened Mk1 handle but I prefer correct info above my wishful thinking.
I’ll take some more pictures tomorrow.
Regards,
John

 

[John Bee]

Here the photos. Keep in mind: these gernades are not that mint as yours.

top of the short handle



top of the long handle.

bar for positioning cap is absent. Not very clear on photo, see point of the arrow for hole in the brass


Hope this was usefull
Regards,
John