No5 Mills made by Barbour Mills Foundry

[Fragman]

Hi. Has anyone come across a No5 Mills grenade that has had its pink filling band painted over with a mustard coloured band? I suspect this was a way of signaling that it had been inerted. Can someone confirm this? Cheers

 

[Fragman]

Hi, Here's a pic of the No 5 with mustard paint. Cheers

 

[paul the grenade]

the only mills ive seen with a mustard yellow are ones that were used by the belgian army. they normally have grey on them as well.:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[Fragman]

Hi Paul. Apparently this one was brought back from India. Cheers

 

[paul the grenade]

im sure somewhere on the forum there's a pic of a 36 mills in a sandy colour paint but i cant find it.
hopefully millsbomber will know.
paul.

 

[Millsman]

Here's one I bought a couple of years ago. It still has the early ali filler plug. The paint is again sand / mustard, but I think this is just a paint that has changed colour over the years. When I got it it had a very early 1915 Ali base plug that someone had ruined by trying to remove it with mole grips. I'm happy the paint is original.



John

 

[Fragman]

Hi John. Nice item – thanks for showing it. The colours in the attached photo have been exaggerated by the electronic flash, but you can still see small spots of pink under the mustard colouring. Interesting to note that I have a No1 and No2 with a very similar shade of mustard paint. Cheers

 

[Millsman]

Paul is right about the Belgian 36's. They are the only one's you regularly see with mustard coloured paint that we know is original. Other's are probably colour changes.

The original paint was always factory mixed using raw meterials. For Pink, the paint was made from:-

Oxide of zinc 1 oz
Vermillion oz
Terebene 1 oz
Turpentine spirits of oz

It would be interesting to mix some up, paint it on metal and see it age! Bearing in mind the original planned life of these grenades was probably no more than a year, they didn't expect the paint to remain perfect for 90 years.

John

 

[paul the grenade]

i just remembered i have this sectioned mills that's been painted yellowy brown at some time in its life. it has traces of white underneath.
paul.

 

[Fragman]

Hi. Here's another one from around the same time with original paint. Whilst its impossible to know what reactions/substances they have been exposed to over the years, the colour fastness of the paint used appears to be very robust. Cheers

 

[Bonnex]

Here's one I bought a couple of years ago. It still has the early ali filler plug. The paint is again sand / mustard, but I think this is just a paint that has changed colour over the years. When I got it it had a very early 1915 Ali base plug that someone had ruined by trying to remove it with mole grips. I'm happy the paint is original.

View attachment 73591

John

John,

Very nice grenade. I believe that this is a Practice No 5 and that the band would originally been white. I would be interested in hearing you views on this and the views of others.

Best.

 

[siegfreid]

I used to make paints & used Terebene as the drying agent & absorber for the earth pigments as used in grenade colouring during WW1 . Basically , those pigments won't dissolve in turpentine & need oil of terebene to make the mix homogenous & quick drying . The final colour will usually last for decades BUT can be affected by sunlight etc. or if the terebene was of poor quality in the first place . It's not unusual for the pink bands on Mills grenades to turn off- white or even yellow & the green bands often turn blue . I hope this may be of interest to members who collect WW1 grenades .

 

[Millsman]

John,

Very nice grenade. I believe that this is a Practice No 5 and that the band would originally been white. I would be interested in hearing you views on this and the views of others.

Best.

Fair point Norman. I can live with that. The body is in very good condition and certainly wasn't thrown about much though. The original 1915 plug was from Moorwoods.

John

 

[siegfreid]

Here's a No23/1 I have & you can , like the others shown , see the pink band has turned mostly white but with traces of pink still visible . Interestingly , the band has been painted across the lever as well !

 

[Bonnex]

If I am right the nomenclature is Grenade, Hand, Practice, No 5 Mk I Dummy to drawing RL24036 and was declared obsolete by approval L/3902 on DGMD/G/378 4th Feb 1920. The grenade was weighted with sand and at some time painted white overall with the word PRACTICE stencilled in black. Nothing like the one shown you might say but I have seen several sand filled No 5s with a white band rather than white overall. I hope to discover that the application of a white overall body colour was the result of losing practice grenades during training and that the first unamended design had just the white band.

In any case less common than Service No 5s I would say.

 

[Millsman]

Norman

I've just had a realy close look at the grenade and there are a couple of tiny flecks of dark red paint still present in the area above the filler screw. This one was, or was destined to be a live grenade, so I think in this case the band has gone from pink to mustard colour.

John

 

[Bonnex]

Clutching at straws but might the red paint be Pettman Cement or similar for sealing the filler plug?

Establishing that practice No 5s just had a white band at one time is going to prove difficult without a good few samples and precise documentation.

 

[Millsman]

I'll pass on that Norman as I've never seen Pettman any colour except black where it has been inside filler screw threads. I'd be gratful if Tom could perhaps comment on the cement if he has any specification or report regarding colour.

John

 

[siegfreid]

John . Pettman cement is red . It's still used as a sealant . I think the red colour is iron oxide pigment mixed with Terebene [as already discussed ] & other components . Tom may be able to help with the exact formulation as used by the British ordnance dept. I suppose it could turn black if mixed with oil & corrosion but I've seen grenades from WW1 where it's still bright red . Mike.

 

[Bonnex]

Mike,

Thanks for Pettman remark. The formulation is in the 1915 Treatise, or at least one Pettman solution for waterproofing is given and Red features heavily. I exchanged emails earlier today with Tom and he reminded me that one demand was for No1, No2, No5, Pitcher and No 15 dummy grenades. The colour schemes that we are probably familiar with from seeing examples suggest that No 1 and No 2 dummy grenades were painted with a white band (over the frag collar) and that Pitcher and No 15s were painted all white. The No 5 perhaps could have had a white band (which is what I am trying establish) or be painted white overall (I know by 1917 it was white overall because I have a drawing so marked).