Odd Mills Bits... Any Ideas?

[staples57]

I picked up a couple of Mills No. 5's this weekend at a local Military Show.
I jumped at this one as it looked like it was kitted out with No. 36 style parts.

On further investigation, the striker and base plug appear to be copper and the lever looks like bronze.
...none of the parts attract a magnet at all (other thank the casting)
The casting appears to be marked "10" right under the filler plug. This I'm assuming is a casting number and not a maker's mark.
The threaded centre hole on the base plug accepts your typical No.36 gas check.

I haven't been able to identify the lever, striker and base plug.


So... What do I have?


Additional info...
a) It may not show in the photos, but the base plug has traces of blue paint.
b) The bottom of the filler plug (brass) is also marked with a "10"
c) The bottom of the base plug (copper) is also marked with a "10"

 

[millsbomber]

I Have a No6, 9 and 20 but i have never seen the parts made in copper or that style of striker pin, i think its had the parts made,,,, Dave

 

[staples57]

Hi Dave,
It is possible, that's what I originally thought also (and how I got the seller to knock $50 CDN off the asking price).
After examining it, I thought that the lever may have been made up, but the striker and base plug appear to have some age / wear and seem over engineered for what they are.
The striker has an off-centre raised round impact face / pin on the base, just in the right spot to hit the primer. Why create an over engineered repro when originals are so plentiful?

I found a reference in the "Grenade Recognition Manual" for "WS & S"... William Suckling & Sons, Birmingham (for a No 16, 19, 20, 24 or 35 grenade).
...not for a No.5 Mills

It may not show in the photos, but the base plug has traces of blue paint.

In any case, it's an interesting one.

Cheers,
Brad

I Have a No6, 9 and 20 but i have never seen the parts made in copper or that style of striker pin, i think its had the parts made,,,, Dave

 

[staples57]

Almost forgot...

I love your numbered mills. The Number 9 marked mills appears to be black in finish, is that original or has it been restored?

Cheers,
Brad

I Have a No6, 9 and 20 but i have never seen the parts made in copper or that style of striker pin, i think its had the parts made,,,, Dave

 

[millsbomber]

The one marked with a number 9 has been painted black Brad, i just got it as i had not got that marking, looks like there are a few that i have not got in that numbered set,,,,,,, Dave

 

[smle2009]

Just an idea to throw in the pot,years ago I came across some No 4 Enfield rifles with bronze bolts and receivers,not the bronzed DP version,the reason for this was to have fully working examples for the ACF but being fairly incapable of firing live rounds(Although the rumours at the time were that a few rounds could well be fired before things went tits up with the rifle!)...just wondered if these grenades are along the same vein?

Cheers
Tony

 

[Millsman]

Trench art or home made parts. The body may have been a spacial presentation casting. I've seen a few in solid brass.

John

 

[staples57]

Hi John,

The casting is a typical cast iron (not brass) No.5 body.
...the filler plug is brass.
...the striker and base plug are copper.
...the lever appears to bronze (or bronze like, maybe a washed copper?)

Someone's gone to a lot of trouble to to manufacture copper parts as they are high quality and not the typical backyard made junk.
The brass filler plug appears to be authentic as does the casting.

Cheers,
Brad

Trench art or home made parts. The body may have been a spacial presentation casting. I've seen a few in solid brass.

John

 

[staples57]

Hi Tony,

During WW2 they made and used bronze bolts for the Sten sub-machine gun as steel was getting scarce (reference Laidler). If bronze can be used in place of steel for the Sten bolt then I can see bronze replacing steel for Mills parts also.
As for copper, that's a different story. Being a softer metal, I can see copper being used for experimental or reproduction parts but I can't see copper being used for mass production of Mills parts.

The oddity about these parts is that they are too well made for your typical backyard repro parts.
My thinking is... Why make repro mills parts when they are so readily available?

Cheers,
Brad

Just an idea to throw in the pot,years ago I came across some No 4 Enfield rifles with bronze bolts and receivers,not the bronzed DP version,the reason for this was to have fully working examples for the ACF but being fairly incapable of firing live rounds(Although the rumours at the time were that a few rounds could well be fired before things went tits up with the rifle!)...just wondered if these grenades are along the same vein?

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

Hi Brad,
I seem to remember some Bren guns having pistons and breech blocks like this too....does seem odd to make repro out of copper to me too,copper being the price it is!
It does seem very well made to me.

Cheers
Tony

 

[siegfreid]

Brad. They used copper washed striker pins in some WW1 No36's but that one looks solid . Also , the "Z" stamp would never appear on WW1 grenade bits . It's a mystery ! Mike.

 

[staples57]

Hi Mike,

Originally I thought the bits were copper washed, but after trying a magnet to them they appear to be solid copper.
It's starting to look like someone has made up Mills 36m like parts to complete a No.5 Mills?

Cheers,
Brad

Brad. They used copper washed striker pins in some WW1 No36's but that one looks solid . Also , the "Z" stamp would never appear on WW1 grenade bits . It's a mystery ! Mike.

 

[pzgr40]

Can it be a 'factory present' ? The kind of present one gets with buying stocks of hand genades? Of course not made of cast iron, but -serving as a presse papier- bronze.

Regards, DJH

 

[siegfreid]

Brad. I believe you are correct . They have made the plug to match the 10 on the body & added a spurious Z mark . They probably got pictures from a book & didn't realise there was a difference between No5's & 36's . Also , the font used on the lever is wrong for that maker . I would imagine that whoever did the machining of the parts did so many years ago when originals were unavailable on the internet . I can remember many years ago that French & Belgian "diggers" would strip No5's to salvage the brass parts for scrap . It's only fairly recently that they have understood these things have any intrinsic value . Your No5 body , though , looks to be a superb , original example & it would be well worth sourcing parts to bring it up to standard configuration . Mike

 

[Millsman]

Nothing really surprises me with the Mills now. I recently bought a box of Mills bits left over from some restoration work in France. In the box was a 36 stricker with no slot in the base, a half moon cut in the side with a small slot like a Dunkirk striker. Never seen that before. This had come off a battlefield so was unlikely to be a factory prototype.

John