P59 Ammunition Box 1938 dated

[BruceLee230]

Hi

Been using this site to find out more about the boxes I've picked up for the last few years so thought it's about time I posted something. Hope this flea market find is of interest. I already have a P59 dated 1943 but it was the date and particularly the way the lid is locked down on this that took my eye. Never seen a 1938 dated box so assuming this method was used before the clamp style. The top might have been repainted but there are markings on the sides. front and back have a green circle on the left. I know early examples had rubber around the handles, this has webbing. There is string attached to the handles and one has the split pin that holds the latch in place, fiddley and awkward to do so why the mechanism was changed I should think. The inside is in very good nick. There is M.C. on the lid, the manufacturer and after a search, someone suggests it could be Morris Cars. Is that possible?
Not bad for a tenner!

Glen

 

[BruceLee230]

Hi again

A closer look at the box reveals that it had been painted green all over and the stencilling is still visible. With a little thinners I rubbed away the green paint to reveal the yellow stencilling underneath.


Front and Back
Top row: DD/L/7517 HD.10.39
Middle row: Green circle 4 SHELL 25 PR Yellow boarded circle with 148 inside
H.E. FZD.H7.IIIZ
Bottom left hand: RL 637

Sides
Top: ID or could have been MD

Middle: Green circle 4 SHELL
FZD.H7.IIID
TNT

I've seen the DD/L/7517 stencilled on later boxes but apart from High Explosive and the packaging date 10.39 I don't know what the abbreviations mean.
I'm assuming this is the Mark I version of the box as the later boxes have a different pressing and stamped Mark II.

Really chuffed to have a very early WW2 box with original stencilling and the cheapest I've ever bought! Now to find another '38 box in poor condition to paint and stencil.

Cheers

 

[tankbarrell]

It will be Fuzed 117 rather than H7.

 

[BruceLee230]

Hi

Seems obvious now that FZD means fuzed. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AE501]

This is an extremely rare package which has never been repainted. It is possible to say this because of the Fuze Percussion DA No.117 Mk IIIZ.
'Z' denotes the presence of a Lead Azide detonator and the requirement to mark fuzes, so fitted, was discontinued in October 1940 (W.O.L.C. B3973 refers).
This P59 Mk1 contained shell Mk1 (all 25Pr HE were Mk1, but over time went through many filled designs). DD(L) 7517 is the very first of these designs. The first fill was TNT, then when there was a shortage of TNT to meet increasing needs, poured Amatol 40/60 was introduced.

 

[TimG]

M.C. - Metal Containers Ltd., Ellesmere, Cheshire.
H.D. 10/39 - Filled at R.O.F. Hereford October 1939.
Green Circle - smoke box fitted.
Encircled 148 - Filled Lot number.

TimG

 

[BruceLee230]

Thanks for the info.

TimG - What does 'smoke box fitted' mean?

Glen

 

[TimG]

Some explosives contain insufficient oxygen to permit complete combustion resulting in the production of carbon, which would be visible as smoke. Conversely, some are 'balanced' and detonate with very little smoke.

If a projectile produced very little, or no smoke on detonation, it would make observing fall of shot very difficult. To counter this, a container of red phosphorous was placed in the shell (generally behind the exploder), on detonation, smoke is produced by the combustion of the phosphorous.

TimG