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If your question hasn't already been answered,the first one looks to be an 8 1/2lb practice bomb.Usa
Never seen a copper nosed one, has it been plated(a magnet will tell if its iron).Usually painted white with sometimes a green band on the tail.
The second one is an 8 1/2lb Break-up,made of bakelite.
This was filled with antimony balls in the nose.Usually painted blue with white stencilling.
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