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Possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr!


Well-Known Member
B)Here you go SG,
I bought this a couple of years ago and it was advertised as 88 FLaK gun sight.
Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Have a read of this waff,,mentions your sights

[edit] 7.62 cm PaK 36(r) auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. D
After a lack of success with conventional and flame tank variants on the Christie chassis, it was decided to use the remaining chassis to mount captured Soviet antitank guns. The hull and suspension was unmodified from the earlier models, but the superstructure was built up to provide a large fighting compartment on top of which was mounted a Soviet 76.2 mm antitank gun, which while not turretted, did have significant traverse. Only developed as an interim solution, the vehicle was clearly too tall and poorly protected, but had a powerful weapon and was better than what the Germans had at the time.

Crew: 4
Engine: Maybach HL62TRM driving a transmission with 7 forward and 3 reverse gears
Weight: 11.5 tons
Dimensions: length 5.65 m; width 2.3 m; height 2.6 m
Performance: speed 55 km/h; range 220 km
Radio: FuG Spr d
Main armament: 7.62 cm PaK 36(r) L/51.5 antitank gun forward mounted using a ZF3 X 8 sight with 30 rounds of ammunition on board
Secondary armament: 7.92 mm MG34 machine gun on pintle mount with 900 rounds carried
Field of fire: traverse 50; elevation 16; depression -5
Armor: 30 mm front hull/superstructure; 14.5 mm side/rear hull/superstructure and gun shield; 5 mm floor plate
Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

I believe another layman's name for this vehicle is the MARDER II, as Spotter says, a larger captured Russian 76.2mm anti-tank gun "ratsch bumm" on a now redundant Panzer II chassis, to create a still useful SPG.

I'm partly guessing here don't believe the germans used the russian optics, so may have used a standard german optic to attach to the vehicle....namely the ZF3 X 8 sight you have.....so it may have been used on other vehicles too?.. Could be wrong!

The german ordnance for the russian ratsch bumm was a 7.62 pzgr39(r) in a PaK40 case. I think you already own one of those if my memory suits.

Whether this optic was ever used on a FlaK 18,36, 37 etc I have no clue....but I suspect other members here might.

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

FYI - Here's a pic of the vehicle in question


Cna't see the optic from this pic, but not doubt it would be rusting away as its at APG....totally different soap box...count to 10 1....2.....3..

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Thank you gents for the write ups.B)
I havent seen a set of optics like these for sale anywhere,so i assume they are quite rare if they are from a converted captured gun?

again cheers

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Ok after a bit more research i have found that the ZF 3x8 was used on both Pak and Flak guns ,also you look through the big end ,time to try find some pics
Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Ah,i know what you mean there about looking through the `bell` rather than the other end.I had quite a debate once about that.
I was once convinced that if this was from an 88 firing station,then you had to look through the other way so the field of view was smaller and you would wait until the aircraft passed through the `triangular` crosshairs then fire.

How wrong could i have been!!:laugh:
Eeeeh!,didnt you just love the `early` days of collecting!

O.K. i'm going to be a bit pedantic on this. :laugh: The vehicle that Spotter referenced is not a Marder it was known as the '7.62 cm PaK 36(r) auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. D (Sd Kfz 132)'
The Marder II, whilst built on a Panzer II chassis used a differnt mark of hull and gun (Pak 40) to the Sd Kfz 132, I told you i was going to be pedantic!!!

Both vehicles used the same sight.

The Nashorn (8.8cm Pak43 L71) used a SflZF1a, Rblf36 sight.
Could this be a Pak 40 gun sight (and perhaps other guns) rather than 8.8cm?

P.S. agree with you Rich about the APG, shamefull way to 'look after' exhibits.

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Again,.great research gents.B)
Either way Q,do we all agree that the sights are german!

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

would the type of graticules determin wether its a Pak or Flak sight,reason for asking i found this one which is marked FLAK

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

The reticule in mine is a row of small inverted triangles and larger triangles as the main ones.


Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

The tip of the larger triangle would be used for aiming at a stationary target, the small triangles for use when giving lead to a moving target.

I'd imagine that this sight could only be used against land targets, the field of view from this sight would be to narrow to detect an aircraft.

AA sights initially tended to be more complicated, with built in course and speed calculators, later sights were much simpler (and cheaper) open or cartwheel designs.

I have a picture of a 3 cm Flak 38 with a simple cart wheel open sight for AA use and what looks like a sight very similar to yours for ground use.

Hello everyone and Waff
Does noone have any work to go to, or where do you get all the spare time ;)

I am only jealous because the wee one arrived last week so I have sneaked away for 5 minutes.

As far as I know (which isn't much when it comes to optics) there are Z.F. 1x11 and 3x8 both for Flak and Pak. The only difference is the reticle.

I have attached a picture of the 3,7cm Pak reticle.

I think the triangles might be for Flak optics.

Re:possible PaK gun sight? one for StielGr

Cheers SG for the shot,i have a ropey pic but it gives you an idea how the reticule looks.Above the shapes pictured there is a vertical line. [img lso congrats on the new nipper SG:)
StielGr, I wonder how they worked out the lead on a moving target without a deflection scale on the graicule?

P.S. Congratulations on the birth of your child :cheer:
Thank you Quatermass. Now I have a boy I'm off to the shops to buy some toy tanks
I wonder do Hornby do a German armoured train set :laugh:

Back on topic
You see you have lost me already when you mention terms like graicule
The only thing I think I know is the numbers refer to 100s of meters.

Graticule is the cross hairs and markings on the focal plane of the sight.

I mistakenly dropped the 't' from graticule (graicule) which may have confused you. Doh. :laugh:

I don't know a huge amount about sights but the few i've had (British) have always had graticule lines to aid the gunner in determining the correct lead to apply to the target.


P.S. try the links below for armoured train models.