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Rebanded Projectiles

I

imaokie2000

Well-Known Member
I had a few projectiles that had missing driving bands. I thought I would try my hand at banding them. I had to build a swedge to squeeze the copper bands into the groves on the projectiles and then turn them on a lathe to get the proper diameter and profile. Once I got my tooling set up and learned my technique, it was easy. The two 37mm projectiles in the first pic are what I really wanted bands on, so I practiced on the others first.

I tried to get the guys at my local Auto Parts Store to squeeze the bands with their hydraulic hose crimper, but that was a big ole NO!:tinysmile_angry2_t:

Rebands IMG_5741.jpgRebands IMG_5743.jpg
 
Very impressive. Thanks for posting the photos of the finished result.

What's the swedge look like and how did you make it?

Dave.
 
Very nice job there. What sort of tool (and what speed / feeds) did you use for turning the copper?

I can post a photo and measurements of an original 23mm band if you would like.

I have done some of these before. I had someone crimp the bands on using a hose crimping machine.
 
I have an extremely large collection of 23mm Soviet, Czech, Hungarian and ect rounds and the bands are identical. It's shadows making them look different.

I was told that I am not only creating fakes but passing the knowledge on to others to create fakes also. I personally feel it is restoration just as much as it is when I weld a split case or when someone repaints a projectile. I posted some pics a while back of a Italian 37mm case that was by all intents, scrap. It was too rare to scrap, so I welded the cracks and saved the case as I have done on many others. I did in fact add weld metal to that case that did not originally belong to it. Is it a fake or is it restored? I do not personally repaint anything or fill the pitting in on cases or projectiles. I just like them to be complete and saved from further degradation. I would agree 100% that creating a case or projectile from a blank piece of metal or to take another case, projectile, or any other type of ord and reshape it in a way to make it appear to be something that it never was would qualify as a fake or a reproduction. I have seen fakes in other's online collections where they refer to the item as a "Reproduction". Fake or Reproduction, either works for me. I have also made several fuzes that I refer to as Reproductions. Restored is something different to me though.

The 37mm Finnish TP-T and the 37mm Experimental with the brass nose which I believe is actually a Presentation Piece, both in the first pic has been absolutely impossible for me to find with bands. I feel like this was the only way to obtain a complete projectile for each or to restore them. I believe in the full flow of technology and passing on my talents to anyone willing to learn, but even though this forum is about "Restoration", it may not be the correct place for the exchange of these ideas.............

I do however appreciate the kind comments from you guys and I hope I don't get hate mail over my last comments. It seems like every time I post pics, I get negative messages for creating fakes or posting pics of live rounds.

Falcon, you are the guy that gave me the idea to use a Hydraulic Crimping Machine. The Auto Parts Store wouldn't do it, so I had to improvise.

Thanks
.....JR
 
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I suppose everyone has their own definition of a fake, but to me it's a reproduction or a restoration that's done for the purpose of deceiving others, usually with money in mind. I'm sure that JR only wants to restore the projectiles for his own satisfaction, but will the guy who happens to own them next be as honest? That's why I believe that anything not original should be marked in some way so there is no doubt in anyone's mind what it is, unless it's already obvious that it is not original.

JMHO

Ray
 
If you have a projectile missing the band there isn't much choice either leave it or restore it. Wether to mark it with say RB for reband is a matter of choice, personally I would prefer not , but I would also not want to see copies of original marks re applied. I don't repaint but on the other hand if one has a pitted projectile and the use of filler is required then what's the harm in doing the whole restoration. It's a matter of choice. Faking to deceive is a whole different game - and one I don't see being practiced on this thread. If your restoration is just like the original and is impossible to tell apart then you have succeeded, if you can tell it apart then all you will get is complaints and suggestions on how to improve it ---
If you have a rare fuze missing a tip, with no hope of finding a replacement then what do you do - have it made, but then it should passed on as restored for sure.
 
Regardless of one's viewpoint - One has to admit, it's a very good piece of work.

TimG
 
37mmprojectiel.jpgThis is what the original band looks like. Your seems accurate. I don't think these are presentation pieces but may be experimental. Anyone know?
 
imioakie2000,I used to swage hydraulic hoses for agricultural machinery and I am sure this swaging method would work on driving bands,perhaps if you contacted an out of town agricultural engineer,where health and safety and anal retension are less in evidence you would probably find that they would do the job quite happily for you,there are many sizes of dies that would suit a variety of projectiles and a good operator would be able to do the job and leave a good surface finish for you to turn down to the correct profile,
I agree with TimG,regardless of ifs buts and whys,you have done a fine job there well done,
Regards,
Don,
 
only $15 from them ! amazing. If any one here buys it I can take care of the shipping if that helps, they are close by.
 
A couple of years ago there was plenty of these at Finnish Army surplus store. I think they were 3 Euros each, or something like. However since some years the army has no longer sold inert shells and all go to scrap in these days.
 
A few decades ago scrap metal dealers paid more for "clean" metal than mixed metal. Therefore Finnish Army chiseled driving bands out from steel shells before they both were sold separately to scrap.
Nowadays sorting of different metals from scrap is much easier.

Needless to add that at todays wages separating of driving bands by hand does not pay.
 
I thought about doing the opposite for a hvar warhead and use a 5 inch naval projo that the band was missing and have it threaded up to fit the rocket body!
 
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