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RG Headstamp
- Thread starter Bombdoc
- Start date
Although "RG" is Radway Green, did they actually manufacture it? I wouldn't have thought there was sufficient demand in the UK to warrant a dedicated production line. RG have certainly sub- contracted others to make ammunition - https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/rg-04-9mmx19-jacketed-soft-point/60964. There's no trace of "TUN" in the 2000 and 2013 Monograms list. The lack of NATO standard symbol might suggest civilian consumption. However, a number of NATO countries, ourselves included have used .308 for sniper rifles - has there ever been a .308 NATO standard?
TimG
TimG
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Thanks for the feedback folks..
Given the date, I am aware that RG were going through a period of commercial and technical turmoil having been taken over by BAE Systems ten years previously. The factory had been starved of investment in its latter days as a Royal Ordnance Factory and was in a pretty run down condition. MOD Procurement was also not helping by playing ducks and drakes with orders. There was a period when RG was trying to survive and took on a number of diversification project to keep its head above water. You may remember that RG was making SA80 magazines at one point!
I suspect this case is somehow involved in this period of Churn.. you will remember that there was an attempt to sell target shooting ammunition into the civil sector. At one time the (UK) NRA were supplied with RG ammunition for the Imperial Meeting as part of a deal with MoD for the use of Bisley for the Services Skill At Arms meeting. This collapsed some years back from (apparantely...!) antipathy in the MoD for civilian shooting and the decline in quality of RG Green and Black spot ammunition. There were a number of instances of the "good ideas fairy" and "wizard wheezes" going around! I was also aware that there were changes in the RG procurement process where instead of everything being made on site, there was a move to buy in pre-formed elements such as cupped brass as well as fully formed cases..
In recent years, there has been significant investment in RG and things are on a much more stable basis. Unfortunately however it is not possible to obtain RG ammunition commercially as we appear to be still following some EU rule regarding selling miliary small arms and ammunition into the commercial sector!
Given the date, I am aware that RG were going through a period of commercial and technical turmoil having been taken over by BAE Systems ten years previously. The factory had been starved of investment in its latter days as a Royal Ordnance Factory and was in a pretty run down condition. MOD Procurement was also not helping by playing ducks and drakes with orders. There was a period when RG was trying to survive and took on a number of diversification project to keep its head above water. You may remember that RG was making SA80 magazines at one point!
I suspect this case is somehow involved in this period of Churn.. you will remember that there was an attempt to sell target shooting ammunition into the civil sector. At one time the (UK) NRA were supplied with RG ammunition for the Imperial Meeting as part of a deal with MoD for the use of Bisley for the Services Skill At Arms meeting. This collapsed some years back from (apparantely...!) antipathy in the MoD for civilian shooting and the decline in quality of RG Green and Black spot ammunition. There were a number of instances of the "good ideas fairy" and "wizard wheezes" going around! I was also aware that there were changes in the RG procurement process where instead of everything being made on site, there was a move to buy in pre-formed elements such as cupped brass as well as fully formed cases..
In recent years, there has been significant investment in RG and things are on a much more stable basis. Unfortunately however it is not possible to obtain RG ammunition commercially as we appear to be still following some EU rule regarding selling miliary small arms and ammunition into the commercial sector!
No.. RG was producing a variety of headstamps at one time such as RORG. It is not a particularly difficult technical job to do this.. all you do is change the heading die, which have to be changed fairly regularly anyway as they are subject to wear.Although "RG" is Radway Green, did they actually manufacture it? I wouldn't have thought there was sufficient demand in the UK to warrant a dedicated production line. RG have certainly sub- contracted others to make ammunition - https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/rg-04-9mmx19-jacketed-soft-point/60964. There's no trace of "TUN" in the 2000 and 2013 Monograms list. The lack of NATO standard symbol might suggest civilian consumption. However, a number of NATO countries, ourselves included have used .308 for sniper rifles - has there ever been a .308 NATO standard?
TimG
I was referring to a dedicated production line for .308. The 9mm JSP manufactured by Federal has the "RG" headstamp showing they were willing to pass on others work as their own.
There appears to be many odd decisions made at Radway - some time back I spoke to a gentleman whose company had made A/riot baton round case s for the MOD - they were very surprised as Radway had a dedicated production line and capacity but chose to outsource.
I recently came across an H83 that had been made by Radway. However, diversification was nothing new for the ROFs having made alarm clocks, concrete buildings and washing machines to name but a few non ordnance items.
TimG
There appears to be many odd decisions made at Radway - some time back I spoke to a gentleman whose company had made A/riot baton round case s for the MOD - they were very surprised as Radway had a dedicated production line and capacity but chose to outsource.
I recently came across an H83 that had been made by Radway. However, diversification was nothing new for the ROFs having made alarm clocks, concrete buildings and washing machines to name but a few non ordnance items.
TimG
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These cases with the TUN in the headstamp were made by Radway Green on contract for a gentleman who ran a company called Tunnel Services, which was an underground range in an old railway tunnel up in Nottinghamshire. He then hand-loaded the cases with (I presume) match-quality bullets, and sold them to full-bore target shooters. They were sold in the green plastic 50-round blocks that the Service ammunition came in, and the chap would put on the side of the block one of his own labels, which I recall was yellow with black print. I used to have one; will see if I have still got it.
I first became aware of these rounds one day at Bisley, when I found some of the Nottinghamshire R.A. boys I knew using them in one of their competitions, and managed to scrounge one for the collection. Next time I am down at Bisley (later this week, I hope) I will see if I can dig out any further info.
Roger.
I first became aware of these rounds one day at Bisley, when I found some of the Nottinghamshire R.A. boys I knew using them in one of their competitions, and managed to scrounge one for the collection. Next time I am down at Bisley (later this week, I hope) I will see if I can dig out any further info.
Roger.
I have now spoken to someone who was involved with this, and he told me that they got Radway Green to make "about 100,000 cases" with this head-stamp so that they could make good quality ammunition for target shooters, as at that time a lot of the shooters were disappointed with the RG-made ammunition that had been sold to them in previous years (although RG had been trying to improve its "Green Spot" ammunition for some time, and had now introduced the new L42A1 sniper/target round with a 155-grain bullet, which shot well).
Tunnel Services used to advertise in the NRA Journals of that time (I can post a scan of one of their adverts if anyone is interested), their 155-grain "Palma" round being sold at £360 per thousand; their 144-grain "Radway Match" (with the "Green Spot" bullet) at £320 per thousand, and "Radway Standard" (with the ordinary 144-grain military bullet) at £290 per thousand. 36p per round for good quality ammo sounds cheap today!
This firm carried on loading target ammo until the mid-2000s apparently, and continued loading ammunition for Match Rifle until sometime later, before closing.
A correction: they did not have a tunnel range, the person who ran the firm had a house that was situated on top of a railway tunnel (that is apparently still in railway service), so that is why he adopted the name.
Roger.
Tunnel Services used to advertise in the NRA Journals of that time (I can post a scan of one of their adverts if anyone is interested), their 155-grain "Palma" round being sold at £360 per thousand; their 144-grain "Radway Match" (with the "Green Spot" bullet) at £320 per thousand, and "Radway Standard" (with the ordinary 144-grain military bullet) at £290 per thousand. 36p per round for good quality ammo sounds cheap today!
This firm carried on loading target ammo until the mid-2000s apparently, and continued loading ammunition for Match Rifle until sometime later, before closing.
A correction: they did not have a tunnel range, the person who ran the firm had a house that was situated on top of a railway tunnel (that is apparently still in railway service), so that is why he adopted the name.
Roger.