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Sectioned US M67 Gren
- Thread starter paul the grenade
- Start date
V40
Well-Known Member
Fragments from balls or coil...
I think that allot of others here would probably agree that the M67 is outdated. Just by putting the "Ribs" on the inside so they were to fracture these little Ribs into smaller fragments doesn't perform like it was meant to. But, then again it was the "Cats Meow" back in the late 1960's and up till the mid -80's. Grenades Like DM51's, M75, M-DN 31, Austrian Grenades, and the "Elviemek series" are all "Modern" type of grenades whereby, they subsitute the coil and stipling on the inside, for preformed tiny balls. These "Balls" can range from anywhere from 1mm to over 2.5mm in width. I believe that Germany hit it off with their DM 51 grenade right off the bat. Now, I believe that Swiss HG-87 to be the best out right now. At least with the HG-87 you now get to order it in any kind of Balls sizes.
Just my $0.02 worth mixed in with some knowledge.
I think that allot of others here would probably agree that the M67 is outdated. Just by putting the "Ribs" on the inside so they were to fracture these little Ribs into smaller fragments doesn't perform like it was meant to. But, then again it was the "Cats Meow" back in the late 1960's and up till the mid -80's. Grenades Like DM51's, M75, M-DN 31, Austrian Grenades, and the "Elviemek series" are all "Modern" type of grenades whereby, they subsitute the coil and stipling on the inside, for preformed tiny balls. These "Balls" can range from anywhere from 1mm to over 2.5mm in width. I believe that Germany hit it off with their DM 51 grenade right off the bat. Now, I believe that Swiss HG-87 to be the best out right now. At least with the HG-87 you now get to order it in any kind of Balls sizes.
Just my $0.02 worth mixed in with some knowledge.
Nice cutaway!
Pity you don't still have the thing- hope you got a good deal for it.
Yup- the M67 is far from ideal in hit probability (less than half of the DM51), and in wounding potential (almost half the metal is turned into a powder on detonation- most of the rest of the body becomes tiny 100mg slivers that barely go thru 1" of flesh before stopping- hardly incapacitating- especially if one's enemy is high on opium or Khat).
Granted, two M67s will fit in a magazine pouch designed for two M16 magazines, and the 160 or so grams of filler DOES produce a nice blast overpressure, but, I would rather carry a few Mk3A2 offensive hand grenades (8oz. of TNT) for that, along with a few DM51 for their pre-formed fragments- even if it meant putting on all those stupid extra "grenade" pouches on my body armor.
As it is, I carry four M67s+, and to be fair- the fuze is a great one! The Russian grenade fuzes (UZRG, and UZRGM) have a nasty habit of having too much "bend" in the spoon. Soldier pulls the pin and squeezes for all he's worth before he can throw- and the spoon pops out of the top of the fuze, releasing the striker, and with the soldier's attention focused on where to throw the thing- he may not have noticed that it's about to go off in his hand.
As the grenade range instructors always said:
"Once you pull the pin, Mr.Grenade is no longer your friend!!"
Pity you don't still have the thing- hope you got a good deal for it.
Yup- the M67 is far from ideal in hit probability (less than half of the DM51), and in wounding potential (almost half the metal is turned into a powder on detonation- most of the rest of the body becomes tiny 100mg slivers that barely go thru 1" of flesh before stopping- hardly incapacitating- especially if one's enemy is high on opium or Khat).
Granted, two M67s will fit in a magazine pouch designed for two M16 magazines, and the 160 or so grams of filler DOES produce a nice blast overpressure, but, I would rather carry a few Mk3A2 offensive hand grenades (8oz. of TNT) for that, along with a few DM51 for their pre-formed fragments- even if it meant putting on all those stupid extra "grenade" pouches on my body armor.
As it is, I carry four M67s+, and to be fair- the fuze is a great one! The Russian grenade fuzes (UZRG, and UZRGM) have a nasty habit of having too much "bend" in the spoon. Soldier pulls the pin and squeezes for all he's worth before he can throw- and the spoon pops out of the top of the fuze, releasing the striker, and with the soldier's attention focused on where to throw the thing- he may not have noticed that it's about to go off in his hand.
As the grenade range instructors always said:
"Once you pull the pin, Mr.Grenade is no longer your friend!!"
V40
Well-Known Member
E-Tech,
You are absolutly correct. I had a friend of mine (John Plaster ret. army as a major) He was in SOG for around 4 years. He told me that the M33's and M67's were much better at killing then the M26A1 & M26A2 grenades. He also stated that when you threw a 33 or 67 you new it 4.5 seconds later.
The Russian grenades are just like you stated. They are also more proned to mud, dirt, and rain because of there fuze(s) openings and cracks which will accumulate it all in the URGM & URGM-3. The are not like our "Bouchon" igniters where by the grenade is relatively safe in many AO's
Just another $0.02 worth
You are absolutly correct. I had a friend of mine (John Plaster ret. army as a major) He was in SOG for around 4 years. He told me that the M33's and M67's were much better at killing then the M26A1 & M26A2 grenades. He also stated that when you threw a 33 or 67 you new it 4.5 seconds later.
The Russian grenades are just like you stated. They are also more proned to mud, dirt, and rain because of there fuze(s) openings and cracks which will accumulate it all in the URGM & URGM-3. The are not like our "Bouchon" igniters where by the grenade is relatively safe in many AO's
Just another $0.02 worth
And, let us not forget the habit of the Russians packing 12 grenade bodies to a box, along with 13 fuzes.
The extra one marked with a "0" on it's detonator- and was exactly that- a zero-delay grenade.
Good for boobytraps and the like, but, whenever you work alongside troops from certain countries in a place like, say, Kosovo, and he gives you a grenade to be friendly- and the fuze is glued in place- make sure to assume that it's got a "0" marked on it's detonator, or you will fall for his "prank".
I remember seeing a research paper from the mid 1990s that had a proposed grenade design that was pretty interesting- it used the same technology as certain cluster munitions to "Upright" itself after landing, and the explosive was in the shape of a dome, or half an egg, and used pre-formed fragments. This made sure nothing was wasted by being blown into the ground.
Good idea, but, I'm waiting for a "bounding" grenade that can be thrown by hand- good way to deal with people taking cover in a dry wadi or canal.....
The extra one marked with a "0" on it's detonator- and was exactly that- a zero-delay grenade.
Good for boobytraps and the like, but, whenever you work alongside troops from certain countries in a place like, say, Kosovo, and he gives you a grenade to be friendly- and the fuze is glued in place- make sure to assume that it's got a "0" marked on it's detonator, or you will fall for his "prank".
I remember seeing a research paper from the mid 1990s that had a proposed grenade design that was pretty interesting- it used the same technology as certain cluster munitions to "Upright" itself after landing, and the explosive was in the shape of a dome, or half an egg, and used pre-formed fragments. This made sure nothing was wasted by being blown into the ground.
Good idea, but, I'm waiting for a "bounding" grenade that can be thrown by hand- good way to deal with people taking cover in a dry wadi or canal.....
V40
Well-Known Member
This also happened long tim ago during operations against the Contras. The were coming from the USSR Packed in frut cans. But GOD help you if you found a fuse that had 0 seconds, which would detonate in you hand. I believe that the fuzes rabged from 0 seconds up to 8.00. You'd just have to look on the fuze body to get the time limit from it.
Just another $0.02 worth of information.. This came out of Soldier of Fortune Magazine on September 1983.
Mark
Just another $0.02 worth of information.. This came out of Soldier of Fortune Magazine on September 1983.
Mark
Man that is a really nice cut away.
Mind you I'm giggling when I say the green lacquer on the aluminum shell gives it away as an M228 fuze :tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Eodtech,
Good point on the sealant color, I am to chicken to cut an M213 :tinysmile_fatgrin_t!
Stay Safe!
Good point on the sealant color, I am to chicken to cut an M213 :tinysmile_fatgrin_t!
Stay Safe!
So am I so don't feel bad. I had one where I stripped the lacquer and used a bit of red fingernail polish to doctor it up for a presentation.
I do like the cut on the aluminum shell. How did you do it?
I used a Dremel Tool with a 1/2" Diameter Fine Grit Sanding Drum. At low speed, the drum made a smooth cut without distorting the aluminum and left nice radius's, along with some finishing with fine files. Thanks for the tip on the sealant, I was just checking and have some red color stained glass paint on the shelf that I might also try.
outlurking
Member
You need to just tint clear enamel with a deep red {almost maroon) or it won't look right for an M213. Also, the safet clip handle goes on opposite side of pull ring. At least that's how they come packed. However, I did used to switch mine as they are easier & more instictive to pop with your thumb if you're right handed.
And yeah, I agree. I do love the M67. Thrown many. But they are outdated. I have no idea why the U.S. doesn't just buy or copy the Ruag HG types & Diehl DM 82 fuze. The money spent on these new confidence clips is a joke. They're not even considered a safety device. And they weren't very well thought out. In my opinion they jack the pull ring out too far - should lay in more shielded by fuze. And the little tab catches on some pouches. I used to have extensive documentation from Picatinny, and they knew from day one the fragmentation was erratic. Mostly just even coining breakage in lower half of sphere, so fragmentation is concentrated somewhat directionally. But still a damn sight better than anything else in it's day. And really the HG 85 types have the same issues. And why piss away more taxpayer dollars looking for ways to make the M213 I'M compliant, when Diehl nailed it with the DM 82 series fuze. I just don't see how a re-worked M213 can top that. And have you seen the ridiculous amounts of $$ they wanna' spend retrofitting existing M67's and even M228 fuze trays with confidence clips.... what a waste ! I've seen the FBO solicitations, they could almost just buy all new ones for what they wanna' pay to fit those stupid clips.
Brian
And yeah, I agree. I do love the M67. Thrown many. But they are outdated. I have no idea why the U.S. doesn't just buy or copy the Ruag HG types & Diehl DM 82 fuze. The money spent on these new confidence clips is a joke. They're not even considered a safety device. And they weren't very well thought out. In my opinion they jack the pull ring out too far - should lay in more shielded by fuze. And the little tab catches on some pouches. I used to have extensive documentation from Picatinny, and they knew from day one the fragmentation was erratic. Mostly just even coining breakage in lower half of sphere, so fragmentation is concentrated somewhat directionally. But still a damn sight better than anything else in it's day. And really the HG 85 types have the same issues. And why piss away more taxpayer dollars looking for ways to make the M213 I'M compliant, when Diehl nailed it with the DM 82 series fuze. I just don't see how a re-worked M213 can top that. And have you seen the ridiculous amounts of $$ they wanna' spend retrofitting existing M67's and even M228 fuze trays with confidence clips.... what a waste ! I've seen the FBO solicitations, they could almost just buy all new ones for what they wanna' pay to fit those stupid clips.
Brian