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Strange Bomb under a French Corsair 1959 Algeria
- Thread starter Dreamk
- Start date
I think it's too small for fuel tank. And it has a head fuze; adopted tanks have usually side fuze installed in fuel intake.
The box tail looks very "US". Wouldn't be simply AN-M57 or something from this family? From this angle of view, a little frontal, the head could appear flatter than it really is.
The box tail looks very "US". Wouldn't be simply AN-M57 or something from this family? From this angle of view, a little frontal, the head could appear flatter than it really is.
I initially wondered whether this was a visual effect and it was in fact a us bomb - BUT the markings on this bomb are unusual - or may be this is not a marking but a band with an attached exploder - the black thing on the ground - BTW in the 1950s and 1960d the exploder on French Napalm tank was often attached externaly to the rear or middle of the tank.
Then the display of a "fuze" in front of the bomb is unusual. And by arefully checking and enlarging the photograph the shape of the bomb's front end is definitively rounded - no other deformation on this photograph could correlate with such a visual deformation.
French experiments with incendiary bombs have been recurrent since the early days of bombing and included some very unusual designs such as the "bombe Claude" and the "bombe Mourlaque" .
Then the display of a "fuze" in front of the bomb is unusual. And by arefully checking and enlarging the photograph the shape of the bomb's front end is definitively rounded - no other deformation on this photograph could correlate with such a visual deformation.
French experiments with incendiary bombs have been recurrent since the early days of bombing and included some very unusual designs such as the "bombe Claude" and the "bombe Mourlaque" .
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I found more photographs showing this strange bombs - these photos are critical as on teh same photograph this bomb appears but also regular 250lb AN-M 57, enabling to see the difference betwen the rounded nose of this bomb and the "pointed" nose of the AN-M57. Moreover ne of these photographs displays in front of this bomb this same long "exploder" while a regular M103 fuze is displayed in front of the AN-M57.
I also made enlargements of the relevant sections of the photographs
These photographs date from the 1953-1957 period
BTW other interesting items appear in these photographs such as the "paquetage 3x50" (cluster of 3 50kg DT2) , the "paquetage 4x10" (4 x10kg PA) French 100kg and 200kg bombs (in the 1st photograph - they were still used operationally till the end of the fifties!) and British 250lb GP bombs (in teh second phtograph - though according to a French official document from 1958, only a small number of British 250lb SAP remained in use by then)
I also made enlargements of the relevant sections of the photographs
These photographs date from the 1953-1957 period
BTW other interesting items appear in these photographs such as the "paquetage 3x50" (cluster of 3 50kg DT2) , the "paquetage 4x10" (4 x10kg PA) French 100kg and 200kg bombs (in the 1st photograph - they were still used operationally till the end of the fifties!) and British 250lb GP bombs (in teh second phtograph - though according to a French official document from 1958, only a small number of British 250lb SAP remained in use by then)
I may have a lead for solving this query. But it's still a suggestion not a definitive identification as the is one element of these photographs that may be inconsistent.
The first step in this is a reassessemnt of the order size of this bomb. We have spoken till now of an order size of 250lb similar to an AN-M57, however the presence of both French 100kg and 200kg on the first pic must lead us to reconsider this assertion:
The diameters of French bombs were as follow:
10kg Dmax 90mm
12kg Dmax 100mm
50kg Dmax 195mm
100kg Dmax 275mm
200kg Dmax 370mm
The diameter of the 250lb AN-M57 was 276mm (10.9 in) - almost identical to the French 100kg bomb
The diameter of the 500lb AN-M64 was 300mm (14.2 in)
The bomb in question is obviously of larger diameter than the French 100kg bomb as seen in the 2d enlargement of the first pic.
This means that this mysterious bomb is in fact of 500lb order size. And this is important....
Why? because we have written documentation of use of the M16 cluster adapter by the French in this period:
1) M29 used for dropping "Hail leaflets" (Shape 2 Lazy Dogs flechettes) by PBY-5 Privateers and B-26 Invaders In Indochina and some limited use in Algeria by B-26 Invaders - and possibly other planes (though apparently the US did not deliver more of this ordnance to the French after the first batch at the time of Dien Bien Phu siege)
2) M105 "Leaflets bombs" used....by P-47 in Algeria for dropping leaflets
This is also consistent with the look of the Fuze/exploder seen on the pics.
The "wide band" around this pic may be somethings not seen on the various examples showing M16A1/A2 cluster adapters, but existing on early M16 model as seen on the NPG REPORT NC. 6-47 from 1947 that deasl with a gun recorder using the bodu of a M16 cluster adapter:
HOWEVER .....there is still something that hampers this identification from being definitive: the M16A1/2 cluster adapter had a definite raised edge to one of the cluster halfs (and the earlier M16 as well as can be seen on the above pics ). We do not see such a edge on the pics . This is especially blatant on the pic in the first post of this thread (under a F4U-7).
Can someone upload pics of operational photographs of M29/M105 bomb in closed state (this can be very different from the few museum pics existing or the open state pics) so we can compare?
The first step in this is a reassessemnt of the order size of this bomb. We have spoken till now of an order size of 250lb similar to an AN-M57, however the presence of both French 100kg and 200kg on the first pic must lead us to reconsider this assertion:
The diameters of French bombs were as follow:
10kg Dmax 90mm
12kg Dmax 100mm
50kg Dmax 195mm
100kg Dmax 275mm
200kg Dmax 370mm
The diameter of the 250lb AN-M57 was 276mm (10.9 in) - almost identical to the French 100kg bomb
The diameter of the 500lb AN-M64 was 300mm (14.2 in)
The bomb in question is obviously of larger diameter than the French 100kg bomb as seen in the 2d enlargement of the first pic.
This means that this mysterious bomb is in fact of 500lb order size. And this is important....
Why? because we have written documentation of use of the M16 cluster adapter by the French in this period:
1) M29 used for dropping "Hail leaflets" (Shape 2 Lazy Dogs flechettes) by PBY-5 Privateers and B-26 Invaders In Indochina and some limited use in Algeria by B-26 Invaders - and possibly other planes (though apparently the US did not deliver more of this ordnance to the French after the first batch at the time of Dien Bien Phu siege)
2) M105 "Leaflets bombs" used....by P-47 in Algeria for dropping leaflets
This is also consistent with the look of the Fuze/exploder seen on the pics.
The "wide band" around this pic may be somethings not seen on the various examples showing M16A1/A2 cluster adapters, but existing on early M16 model as seen on the NPG REPORT NC. 6-47 from 1947 that deasl with a gun recorder using the bodu of a M16 cluster adapter:
HOWEVER .....there is still something that hampers this identification from being definitive: the M16A1/2 cluster adapter had a definite raised edge to one of the cluster halfs (and the earlier M16 as well as can be seen on the above pics ). We do not see such a edge on the pics . This is especially blatant on the pic in the first post of this thread (under a F4U-7).
Can someone upload pics of operational photographs of M29/M105 bomb in closed state (this can be very different from the few museum pics existing or the open state pics) so we can compare?
OK, so I took some photos of my cluster adapter, and a couple of an AN-M64A1 500 Lb. GP bomb to show the differences in Ogive radii of the two. The M64A1 has a larger radius so it is more pointed. And, yes the seam on the cluster is very visible.
Attachments
Thanks Hazord!
So the though the front end of the M-29 cluster is definitively rounder than the AN-M64, the "lip" of this cluster is quite visible.
Meanwhile I found an instruction movie at NARA for the M105 leaflet bomb that used an early version of this same cluster - once again the lip is highly visible, though in some views, due to the angle of the photography, it is absent.
So the issue is still not solved - Though there is a strong suspicion that the bomb is question is indeed a M29 cluster/m105 leaflet bomb, the absence of a visible aperture line and "lip" goes against this identification, though the angle of the photography may be the issue here (pay attention that the bombs on the ground in front of the P-47 are lying on their side, and not with the attachments on the top)
So the though the front end of the M-29 cluster is definitively rounder than the AN-M64, the "lip" of this cluster is quite visible.
Meanwhile I found an instruction movie at NARA for the M105 leaflet bomb that used an early version of this same cluster - once again the lip is highly visible, though in some views, due to the angle of the photography, it is absent.
So the issue is still not solved - Though there is a strong suspicion that the bomb is question is indeed a M29 cluster/m105 leaflet bomb, the absence of a visible aperture line and "lip" goes against this identification, though the angle of the photography may be the issue here (pay attention that the bombs on the ground in front of the P-47 are lying on their side, and not with the attachments on the top)
Another close view of this mysteriosu bomb - same period, 1956-1958, same location, French Algeria. This time under a Mistral , the French license built de Havilland Vampire. On the bomb rack a French 50kg or 100kg bomb (it seems to have a ring tail stabilizer, thence 100kg, but this area of the photograph is not 100% clear) , on the ground this mysterious bomb. The angle of the photography allows to see that the nose is indeed rounded (this is emphasized, if needed by the pointed nose the AN-M57 bomb that lays behind this bommb) - The body appears to be casted in a single piece and the "band" around the body at the position of the attachment point is a very wide painted stripe with another, thinner, more recently one overpainted in the center (both probably red).
Some idea?
Some idea?
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Dreamk, from your latest photos, I'm inclined to believe that your mystery bomb is a cluster adaptor, because the fins are not an add-on, they are permanently attached (welded) to the rear cone shape of the body. If you look at the fins on the full length photo of my bomb, they look exactly the same.
Yes indeed this is a further element in favour of its identification as a cluster adaptor.
The only element against is the absence of a visible aperture line, on all the various photographs of this bomb (another weaker element being the absence of submunitions displayed besides this bomb)
The only element against is the absence of a visible aperture line, on all the various photographs of this bomb (another weaker element being the absence of submunitions displayed besides this bomb)