These cartidges are for Riots and Civil Disoreds...

[V40]

Seeing what you guys have across the pond there for some of your Riot Contol and possibly Civil Disorders. I thought maybe you guys would like to see my collection of 37mm ammunition that I would you against the above aforementioned problems. As you can see I have a large choice of munitions to use and this doesn't even include my shotgun collection. The items in front of the rounds are the munition itself. I gathered these up in
Instructor School, actually there were more out in the grass but how to find them was a problem .
So enjoy.

Are there any questions? Or would you rather see my collection of 12 gauge anti riot munitions?

V40

 

[spotter]

V40 are these military or civil (police) issue items,ref no20F and no27B do these work in the same manner as large shotgun rounds

 

[V40]

Spotter you are spot on with your observations, they are used by both the military (unless they have a comparable round in 40mm) and definately in Law Enforcement. Although lately the turn to the 40mm for everything in LE is the trend. Anyhow, the last two you mentioned are indeed for both military and Law Enforcement. They are also meant to disperse the crowd thru the Shotgun effect. Both of those have to be fired at no closer than 15 meters from the crowd, and are to be shot into the ground in front of the crowd. You may shoot at the crowd directly if for some reason "Deadly Force" is needed right now. We are trained to shoot these cartridges in front of the cowd where each projectile looses velocity rapidly and have them skip off of the ground and into their ankles, calves, or knees. The other version of the rubber baton rounds with wood slugs are to be shot this way also. But they hurt unbelievably bad. They have also been known to even break knees.

The "Stinger" 37mm rounds are also very popular for the size of their hard rubber balls inside. If you were to shoot this 37 into a crowd at head height you will probably kill someone. This one is also meant to be skipped fire.

Actually, the only rounds that do not need to be skipped fire are your OC,CN (not used much anymore even though it is a little harder hitting that OC and sometimes CS), CS, and CN-DM (this combo of CN and Lewisite is fatal in moderate concentrations and definetly deadly in larger concentrations.).

The other rounds that have their writings in yellow are mostly smoke rounds. The other colors such as white are usually reserved to the "Knee-Knocker" series of munitions. The orange markings always dictate an OC munition. The red markings indicate that they are CS munitions. The first round however, is a "Bean Bag" round which is really the only other munition that is actually aimed at the person's body. This one can also be used as a lethal weapon. People up close to the barrel or even 15 meteres out will die if this round hits them in the head.

Here is our Chemical chart for what each chemical munition stands for: carrying
1) OC Oleo-Capiscasin
2) CS Orthochorobenzylmolonitile
3) Cn Acetophenone
4) DM Diethylmethylarsine (has Arsenic in it) This is the only one I really forget to spell. The others I can really spell without thinking.

 

[dano1917]

less lethal rounds.

Nice assemblage of the "less lethal" rounds V40. I have an appreciation for this class of ammo and am getting more and more interested in collecting it all the time. thanks for showing the fine array of items. I do see lots of the 37mm (US side of pond) baton rounds on Gun Broker and the like, almost like the forum could use a catagory on less lethal rounds. There are so many different threads on these rounds that a catagory makes total sense to me. Anyway guess I got a little off track. Thanks for posting V40 and again nice array of stuff...Dano

 

[GI Zhou]

The Chinese have amongst their plethora of roit control weapons, two tear gas rifle grenadesdesignated the BZ and FB tear gas grenades.http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/these-cartidges-riots-t59758.html?t=59758#_edn1 BZ stands for baozha meaning explode and is the explosive type tear gas grenade. Both these grenades are of conventional rifle grenade shape, are 260mm long, weigh 450g, have a launch speed of 66 m/s and have a maximum effective range of 250m. They are designed to be able to land in a 0.3 x 0.3m area at 100m.

It would appear that BZ grenades were used by Thai security forces during the disturbances on 7 October 2008.[ii] Three protestors were killed, and eight lost legs, feet or toes due to grenade explosions. Tests by Thai forensic examiners showed that there was a considerable amount of RDX explosive and that it ‘left a crater eight centimetres wide and three centimetres deep (three-inches wide and one-inch deep) in the ground’, further noting that it ‘left a hole in a metal pipe.’



http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/these-cartidges-riots-t59758.html?t=59758#_ednref1 . ‘Guochan 45mm cuilie qiangliudan’, Zhongguo Bing Bingqi, 1994, p 51.


[ii] . ‘Thai Police Used Tear Gas Laced With Explosive Investigators: Thai Police Used Cheap
Tear Gas Laced with Powerful Explosive on Protesters’, ABC News International, 13 October 2008 http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6020594 accessed 11 July 2009.

 

[US-Subs]

Spotter you are spot on with your observations, they are used by both the military (unless they have a comparable round in 40mm) and definately in Law Enforcement. Although lately the turn to the 40mm for everything in LE is the trend. Anyhow, the last two you mentioned are indeed for both military and Law Enforcement. They are also meant to disperse the crowd thru the Shotgun effect. Both of those have to be fired at no closer than 15 meters from the crowd, and are to be shot into the ground in front of the crowd. You may shoot at the crowd directly if for some reason "Deadly Force" is needed right now. We are trained to shoot these cartridges in front of the cowd where each projectile looses velocity rapidly and have them skip off of the ground and into their ankles, calves, or knees. The other version of the rubber baton rounds with wood slugs are to be shot this way also. But they hurt unbelievably bad. They have also been known to even break knees.

The "Stinger" 37mm rounds are also very popular for the size of their hard rubber balls inside. If you were to shoot this 37 into a crowd at head height you will probably kill someone. This one is also meant to be skipped fire.

Actually, the only rounds that do not need to be skipped fire are your OC,CN (not used much anymore even though it is a little harder hitting that OC and sometimes CS), CS, and CN-DM (this combo of CN and Lewisite is fatal in moderate concentrations and definetly deadly in larger concentrations.).

The other rounds that have their writings in yellow are mostly smoke rounds. The other colors such as white are usually reserved to the "Knee-Knocker" series of munitions. The orange markings always dictate an OC munition. The red markings indicate that they are CS munitions. The first round however, is a "Bean Bag" round which is really the only other munition that is actually aimed at the person's body. This one can also be used as a lethal weapon. People up close to the barrel or even 15 meteres out will die if this round hits them in the head.

Here is our Chemical chart for what each chemical munition stands for: carrying
1) OC Oleo-Capiscasin
2) CS Orthochorobenzylmolonitile
3) Cn Acetophenone
4) DM Diethylmethylarsine (has Arsenic in it) This is the only one I really forget to spell. The others I can really spell without thinking.

V40, one small correction. DM is not Lewisite, as identified as above, it is Adamsite, a sternatory or vomiting agent. Lewisite is a very powerful blister agent, very similar in action to mustard, except that mustard has a somewhat delayed effect and Lewisite is immediate and highly painful. While Lewisite would indeed be potentially lethal, Adamsite was a common riot control fill both commercially and in the military, both by itself and mixed with CN (M6 grenade, smoke pots, etc) and should not cause serious problems unless used enclosed spaces. The main problem with Adamsite causing it to fall out of use was that it contains arsenic, a slow-acting systemic poison. Also part of this family and widely used was DA (diphenylchloroarsine) and DC (diphenylcyanoarsine) found in WWII Japanese fills (aka "Red" munitions).

 

[V40]

I stand corrected.

Adamsite though is powerful enough on the inside of a building or house as it is on the streets outside for Riot Control. Many people would die from the Adamsite because of its effectiveness on people. The CN takes over long enough for the Adamsite to take over. Hence their use in the early days up to Vietnam , and then their eventual discontinuence because of the deaths and which time CS was developed. We had to expose ourselves to both CN and CS at the Instuctor's school and man i"ll tell you what, both are very powerful but CN for us was the worse. It took a while for it to work then bam it would hit you within 2-3 minutes. I am glad that is all over.

 

[US-Subs]

The US also loaded what was called CS-2. The CS was bonded with silicone, which gave is much more durability in areas of high humidity. While CS is normally considered a very safe agent (great difference between how much is effective versus how much does damage) CS-2 was different and could cause serious injuries/fatalities much more readily. While it was never used domestically, we imported over 7000 tons into a certain SE Asian country in 1970 alone. They began burying it in about 1975 because of problems, and are continuing to have significant difficulties today due to groundwater contamination.

 

[V40]

US-Subs, I remember CS-2 in a pumper that went into the hole of a bunker. I also think that a CS-1(?) may have been used in aircraft delivery bomblettes? I am confused here on your CS-2 and maybe a CS-1? Help me out here.




I have a couple inert CS & CN grenades that go back to the early 60's and were military issue then. I do however remember the CS grenades being used allot more often that CS-2. Either way you should mask up when handling these devices if they are real.

 

[inertordnance]

The CS-1 Loading as used in The US M25A2 Bursting Riot Grenades, was a mixture of 95% Micropulverized Orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile and 5% Silica Aerogel. The Aerogel was added to keep the CS Agent dry and free flowing for proper discharge.

 

[US-Subs]

US-Subs, I remember CS-2 in a pumper that went into the hole of a bunker. I also think that a CS-1(?) may have been used in aircraft delivery bomblettes? I am confused here on your CS-2 and maybe a CS-1? Help me out here.




I have a couple inert CS & CN grenades that go back to the early 60's and were military issue then. I do however remember the CS grenades being used allot more often that CS-2. Either way you should mask up when handling these devices if they are real.

The US loaded CS in just about everything you can imagine for use in Viet Nam. Initially the reasoning was that we could use it for the rescue of downed pilots and POWs - blanket the area, the enemy has little or no protective equipment, we swoop in and save those in need. Noting the near total lack of protective equipment however, the use expanded, and soon loadings became much more varied.

To list all of the loadings would take too much time here and now, but we put it into 105mm, 155mm, 4.2-inch, 2.75 rockets, 66mm rockets (similar to the flash 202 but pressurised with nitrogen), several types of submunitions (BLU-39/E49/M16, XM100, M54, XM693, etc) and even a converted firebomb body. Pump rigs were adapted for tunnel and helicopter use, flamethrowers were converted, grenades, mini-grenades, 40mm grenades, candles -

Using it as area denial, we could just not get it on the ground fast enough. Eventually we just adapted a burste tube, attached a firebomb all-ways fuze and pushed the bulk drums straight out of the back of C130s.

A few years back I spent some time in Viet Nam, at a number of the sites where they had buried much of what was leftover on the departure of the US. 10 tons here, 10 tons there - an amazing mix of munitions pulled out of the ground.

Normally CS-2 was in bulk, or loaded into pumpers/sprayers as you described. I've seen drums marked with it (2 red bands vs 1) and 1 single 155mm, but that is it. Munitions filled were marked with two red bands and "Tactical CS", normally shortened to Tac CS.

Interesting about the ABC M25 is that you sometimes see them with a yellow band to indicate the burster charge. I had never seen this until about 93, when they started to show up for destruction. The explanation we were given was that it was just a new marking. This turns out to be incorrect, as I saw thousands in VN, all with the band and none without.

I'll attach some photos for more clear info. JO

 

[US-Subs]

Here's a few more.