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Three Odd British 9x19mm


Well-Known Member
The attached photo is of three cartridges with British headstamps. I first saw them in a US collection in 1970. From left to right the headstamps are:
RG 60 9MM2Z 130gr oaw
K61 9MM2Z 105gr oaw
K58 9MM2Z 91gr oaw

Anyone with any idea what they are? Guesses accepted!!!

All are very light weight as you can see.




If my memory serves me right, Around 1977-78 I was told that the Australian military use a lighter projectile weight of 115grains in our 9 x 19mm as it was kinder to pistols than the heavier wartime loads. I guess the 130grain is for silenced sub-machine guns and the lighter two are for the 9 x 19mm Browning HP35s that were allegedly taking a beating using the heavier ammo.
Are the last two A.P. rounds? The one in the middle has the same shape as the A.P. round as used here in the states. The last one, if it has an oily, greasy, or just plain old sliipery bullet, then that might be an KTW A.P. round also.

Just my $00.02 worth.

Sorry, should have mentioned. None of these bullets are the least bit magnetic.

It is interesting that the gray tip load looks quite a bit like a German experimental load with a hard core made by DAG in 2001.
The one of the left looks similar to the Chinese /Russian AP projectile and the middle one is sommewhat similar to the original Luger projectile of the 9 x 19mm. Could have been designed to improve feeding.
They look very similar in construction to all those various-color plastic rounds that came out of South Afrca (drawing a mental blank on the name!). Did Gordon Conway have a contact down there with access to early models of those ronds? They look to be simple aluminum (sorry, aluminium...forgot this is a British forum!) and plastic construction.
The weight on the rounds mean they have to have bullets where the core is mostly plastic. The round on the left, with an oaw of 130gr would have a 60gr bullet-about half the weight of the standard ball loads (115gr-125gr). The other two would have bullet weights of about 35gr and 20gr. Pretty odd weights for ammo made in the late 50s or early 60s.

For use on ranges, and confined spaces for close quarter battle, to reduce their danger area and penetration.
British 9mm

I think you have mentioned these before, but I am sorry I cannot help you.

Assuming that the headstamp dates are approximately when the rounds were made, they are too early for sky marshal type loads or for aircraft assault.

Possibly some sort of training ammo, but I shall ask around within the system and see if anyone knows anything.