Trying to identify the type of 57mm cartridge in a WWII photo

[mmcalc]

I am trying to identify the type of cartridge that the cannoneer is holding in this is a photo. The photo is of an M1 57mm gun section of the 2nd Armored Division, 41st Armored Infantry taken at Pont Brocard, France on 30 July, 1944. The gun was used the night before to engage softskin vehicles and personnel. I am wondering if it is a British HE round. Thanks. Mike Canaday

 

[ordman]

Looks like it might be an M86 APC it could also be an M303 HE

 

[mmcalc]

I would guess this projectile has a nose fuze, based on the contrast. The picture is grainy when blown up but the nose looks like it has a flat on it. Did the M303 HE have a flat nose fuze? When did the M303 get into the ETO? Thanks.

 

[mmcalc]

I worked up a CAD model of the MK3 HE-T and the M86 APC-T and superimposed them onto the original photo.



The problem with the MK3 HE-T is the markings. It seems to fit the shape but the projectile in the original seems to have a dark body. I would guess that the projectile is not an M86 since you would expect to see the windshield cap.

This seems to be a British HE round.

Mike

 

[ordman]

Left to right U.S M303 W/M86 PD FUZE, U.S. M86 APC-T, BRITISH 6 POUNDER APCBC, U.S. M70 AP, U.S. M22 DRILL, BRITISH 6 POUNDER AP
The M86 fuze does have a flat nose
The enhanced photo seems to show and M86 fuze
The troops appear to be U.S. possibly from 2nd Armored division if so the round would either be an M86 or M303
According to the Osprey book Men-At-Arms 350: US Army WW2 North-West Europe, the camouflage suit was issued to elements of the 2nd and 30th Infantry Divs and the 17th Engineer Battalion, as well as the 2nd Armored Div's 41st Armored Inf Regt. Before being withdrawn.
The reason was the pattern resembled SS uniforms and drew fire.

Take a look at a past BOCN thread
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/78744-M303-57MM-HE-vs-T18e1-57MM-HE?highlight=57mm+m303

 

[mmcalc]

Thanks for the info!

Mike Canaday

 

[ARMORMARINE]

i am trying to identify the type of cartridge that the cannoneer is holding in this is a photo. The photo is of an m1 57mm gun section of the 2nd armored division, 41st armored infantry taken at pont brocard, france on 30 july, 1944. The gun was used the night before to engage softskin vehicles and personnel. I am wondering if it is a british he round. Thanks. Mike canaday
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t18e2 h.e.