Two 37mm for identification

[303hans]

Hello,
I have two, probably French to see at the 2 driving bands. The have the same fuze but the fuzes are differently placed.
One has RN9 and the ancre on the grenade but the other has no markings.
Could anyone tell me what kind of fuzes, name, model etc they are
What is the model of the grenades
For who were they made
What was the sort of explosives, blackpowder or melinite or picrine??
Thanks, Best Regards Hans

 

[highlandotter]

well, there are 2 fuzes I have never seen! I would say that since here is no gain shown, the projectiles were loaded with black powder. The projectiles are the M1888. I am waiting to see the identity of the fuzes!

 

[SG500]

Interesting fuze.
I asked about a similar one previously and wasn't that sure about the answer.
Dave.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/84846-Unusual-fuze-ID-please

 

[highlandotter]

Just checked the early post and was shocked by the answer that the fuze is a base fuze for the 75mm and that it screws into the nose of the 37mm!!!!Thanks

 

[highlandotter]

thanks to SG500 and doctor for the above info. Takes a great load off my mind.

 

[tigbrand]

Interesting that the fuze well is larger than that on a normal HE. Without the internals its hard to confirm if the fuze could be made for the shell? Generally base and nose fuzes operate in opposite directions internally,ie in which direction the needle travels to hit the detonator pellet. Tig.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

What a strange system !
Yes, it's a base fuze "20/25mm systme Schneider" for 75mm AP shell (75mm de rupture modle 1908 and 1910) and other specific shells for the Navy.
I'm sure it can not work as a PDF !
The 20/25 fuze was screwed in a big plug at the base of the shell.
(The original 37mm 1888M is filled with 22gr Black Powder)

Best Regards.

 

[highlandotter]

I don't think it is functional. I think someone discovered it would fit, went from there. Whether it was just to fill an unoccupied fuze well, or a deliberate move to confuse collectors. I have no idea. If it was a functional plan, we would have seen more examples and probably seen it listed in the French data.

 

[303hans]

All Thanks for the answers. I bougt the two grenades on different occasions on brocantes from old people who said that it was in the family sinds Grandpa brought it home from the battlefields. I bougt it along with a helmet and medals.
Looking at the grenades internaly they are different and both are made for the fuse and not adapted as I can see. The diameter of the tread is much bigger than the ordinairy demarest ones.
When I look at the fuzes the could work in my opinion. The striker pin in on top and when the grenade hit anything the striker hits the primer and the primer ignition flame goes into the grenade and put it of.
Regards Hans

 

[MINENAZ16]

Definitly not made for this shell !

 

[SG500]

The one in the link I posted is still in a collection in the UK. So.....we know there are at least 2 of them. Does anyone else have examples of this projectile/fuze combintion?

Dave.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

Even if the 20/25 Schneider was not made for a 37mm shell we can discuss about it.

Indeed the french 37mm 1888M was modified to accept other fuzes.

Everybody know this shell with the basic fuze Desmarest (screw diameter : 13.5mm) but at the end of ww1 (and after the war), new sensitive fuzes was made for Aircraft guns and Navy guns. Some of these fuze (with Schneider system) have exactly the same internal functioning as the 20/25 shown in this post.

-Fuze Schneider N3bis (Body diameter 24mm - Screw diameter : ?)





-Fuze Schneider N6



-Fuze sensitive 22/24mm 1918S or 22/24mm Schneider (same shape) :
(picture from BOCN)







Best Regards

 

[Gspragge]

"The one in the link I posted is still in a collection in the UK. So.....we know there are at least 2 of them. Does anyone else have examples of this projectile/fuze combination?)

Can you post an image of the base of the projectile. The Hotchkiss case does not belong of course.

 

[303hans]

Minenaz16,
You are very sure. Explain me please why hey are not made for this shell. I say the are definitly made for this shell because tthey are both internally made for the fuze,

 

[Gspragge]

Everyone seems to be chasing their tails - these projectiles are correct period.

 

[Gspragge]

:banghead: This thread was driving me crazy and I couldn't respond directly, -------------oh sorry that was an existing precondition:tinysmile_tongue_t:

These projectiles are entirely correct and all that, Obviously the 1911 example is the same fuze mounted more or less externally, there must have been an issue with this and the internal version was used. These No 6 fuzes use the same safety as the No3. A segmented ring of four sections held together by a wire. The rotation of the projectile separates these and in the case of the No3 allows the firing pin unit to move rearward when something is struck. The No 6 works the same way except when the segments separate the percusion cap unit moves forward into the pin ( just like Nordenfelt fuzes and numerous others) The No 3 is used on 37x94 case loadings at 1300 fps. The No 6 are used on 37x202 cases at 2500 fps. My guess is that the setback stresses at 2500 fps would drive the No3 firing pin unit back through everything and cause a premature. With the No 6 this cannot happen. I suspect the No6 fuze needed more support in the higher loading and that is why it was mounted within the projectile body early on. These rounds have a low explosive force but if they hit another aircraft that alone would likely be enough (every one complained about being hit (or scared of) by the German tracers, and they don't explode at all) They were issued with and without tracers and were I think obsolete by 1918 at least they are not in the scales of issue by then. These are a form of sensitive fuze, but not perhaps fabric sensitive.

I could use a couple, any one got spares ~

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

Gspragge, for sure your right. I didn't know that the N6 was a 20/25 like the base fuze for the AP 75mm and have the same markings !
So, it's very insteresting to see a real N6 and I'll change quickly my documentation of work.

Best Regards.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Now I know...I'm stupid !

The 20/25mm for 75mm AP base plug can not be your fuze !!!!
The top of the base fuze needs holes for the flame.
I will try to be more focused next time.

-20/25 for 75 AP (look at the holes) :







-20/25 for 75mm Mle 1910 modified 1926 (4 clips) :




Best Regards

 

[Gspragge]

It would seem No 6 20/25 is a modified 75mm 20/25 which I guess was earlier.

 

[doctor]

picture of 20/25 M and base plug of 75 mm pointed shell