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Two more shells for ID please


Well-Known Member
Help needed on these two shells please.
The smaller shell has been partly filled with lead at some time.

Thanks z4.


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dear z4

Dear z4 the first one looks for me like an 3,7 cm round for an Gruson or Hotchkiss gun !
the second one also any that kind of but i am not sure !!

best regards David
I did have some info on the first shell but lost it in a computer crash.
The second shell I don't have a clue what it is,the lack of markings on the base does not help.
The second one looks like a 1 inch gatling gun round. The crimping groove on the projo is rather distinctive to that design. Hard to tell with no measurements of length or case mouth diameter.
One inch

The second round is a British one inch Aiming Rifle Mark IV(M) Electric primed with the Morris primer. There was also a version of the Mark IV with the Kings Norton elctric primer.

It should have a plain lead bullet, but it appears that at some point it has been loaded with a steel Nordenfelt type projectile, which is wrong for that headstamp. It is possible that this was done during WWI as examples of the aiming rifle with a steel bullet are known as they were found useful for sinking floating mines.

The 1 inch Nordenfelt used the same case as the aiming rifle but would have been headstamped differently. The 1 inch Gatling had a different case altogether and also would have had a lead bullet.

It is possible that this was done during WWI as examples of the aiming rifle with a steel bullet are known as they were found useful for sinking floating mines.

The shells I have put on this site all came from the same source and most of the replies have said they are naval round's.
Here is another shell from the same lot,I did have info on this shell but it was lost. If I remember right I think I was told it was a Japanese naval shell.


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You are right, that is a 47mm Japanese Navy Hotchkiss round made on contract by Elswick Ordnance Company, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne.

I'm sure someone else could tell you more about the date.
Another interesting selection of rounds,Steve,I'm glad that we're gradually
coming down to my very limited knowledge level.There's not much I can add to what everyone else has said,with your first round the crowned M
says it all really.If,as Tony suggests it may well be,the second one is a special purpose combination for sinking floating mines,it might be a very rare thing to find these days.The third one,I seem to see quite a few of these,I wonder if lots of them didn't actually make it to Japan.They were made here,as has already been said,by the Elswick Ordnance Company,and were for the Japanese Boat Gun,sometimes called the 2 1/2
pdr Hotchkiss.
Gun in museum

Just to add a little about the 47mm Hotchkiss gun as there is/was a mint conditioned one in one of the museums in Birmingham just a little way from the "Bullring" shopping centre.
Do not recall seeing any rounds for it though.
Could the Japanese Hotchkiss rounds have been kept here by the UK for use in WW1?

What date were the EOC ones made?