U.S. practice MKII

[dano1917]

This came in post today. It is U.S. practice MKII. Not sure of the era but assume somewhere between WWII and Vietnam i'd assume. The body is obviously a repaint but still a classic in my eyes. Been waiting on a couple of other packages, 1 for collection and 1 for resale. I originally the 68 on the spoon was the date, but have since been set straight on that one. Still will display proudly with Vietnam collection. Who knows?? Dano

 

[vinnyw]

Hello Dano
I think you have a farely early MK2,the bottom looks pre 1936,Dose it have a screw in the bottom?
By the way hope all is going good for you.
vinny:tinysmile_classes_t

 

[dano1917]

Hi Vinny, Thanks and I guess good as can be expected. The hole in bottom is unthreaded practice version and the body has a C stamped on one of the frag lugs. Thanks for comment....Dano

 

[Kilroy was Here]

This came in post today. It is U.S. practice MKII. Not sure of the era but assume somewhere between WWII and Vietnam i'd assume. The body is obviously a repaint but still a classic in my eyes. Been waiting on a couple of other packages, 1 for collection and 1 for resale. I originally the 68 on the spoon was the date, but have since been set straight on that one. Still will display proudly with Vietnam collection. Who knows?? Dano

Hi Dano, nice addition. It's a WW2 "Crane Co." made body if it's marked "C". Can you show a good pic of the hole on the bottom please?

It seems Crane bodies were used quite a bit for training grenades I have found out lately. I just got a new blue trainer and it is a C marked body, but has threads. I also have 2 other trainers marked "C" with just a hole.
Here's pics of all three.

 

[dano1917]

Hi Dano, nice addition. It's a WW2 "Crane Co." made body if it's marked "C". Can you show a good pic of the hole on the bottom please?

It seems Crane bodies were used quite a bit for training grenades I have found out lately. I just got a new blue trainer and it is a C marked body, but has threads. I also have 2 other trainers marked "C" with just a hole.
Here's pics of all three.

Hi Steve, here's A few shots of unthreaded bottom of C practice MKII. The detonator showing is a definate INERT repro.Dano The whole damned thing is inert

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Hi Steve, here's A few shots of unthreaded bottom of C practice MKII..Dano

(I know I talk a lot, so here we go.... grab a beverage of your choice and enjoy the ride.)

Hi Dano,Thanks, that was some quick pics. You know Dano, you could Theoretically call you grenade an "M21" also. The darker blue "M21" I show above is the Exact same grenade body as yours, EXCEPT that it has a little darker blue color, and came in a 8-44 dated M41A1 grenade can that says "M21" on it.

Last few days I've been having a discussion about WW2 practice grenades with a friend and member here, and man, I will tell you, now all these "Crane" trainers, other blue trainers and M21's are making me NUTS!! There's another "C" trainer I saw just listed somewhere, and I also have a few pics saved of other "C" trainers.
But whats odd is my "C" in pics above has a threaded hole and was made to be used as a HE grenade, but has the same "anemic looking small frags" and same body shape that some have said "were only used for training bodies"

I have a Yellow MkII Crane marked "C" "27" that has lead plug, and it has a completely different shape than these "C" bodies You and I have shown.
So....there are at least two different body shapes for the Crane company grenades. Interesting........at lease to me :tinysmile_grin_t:

I think for sure now that the Crane company must have had some type of Gov. contract, or have been assigned to supply many practice grenades in the late war years. This is too much of a coincidence to see so many.

I wish there were some wartime records or paperwork that had more info about the Crane company and trainers, and also the drilling or reaming of threaded hole grenade bodies to make "M21" practice bodies.

BUT, I really wish someday that a few more WW2 dated M21 grenade cans WITH the original grenades that were inside surface and show up one day.
So far I have counted only three WW2 dated M21 cans that have been shown here, my two dated 8-44, and another dated 12-44, but just the can, no grenade was shown. The two grenades in my cans are a WWI body and a Crane body like yours. That does not tell much for research purposes really. :sad:

 

[Eodtek]

The detonator showing is a definate INERT repro.Dano

On that practice grenade it would be an igniter Dano and not a detonator.:bigsmile:

 

[dano1917]

Thanks for pointing that out to me EODTEK, I do know the difference between a detonator and an igniter, lately have been suffering from temporary "brain farts"....Dano
INERT TO BE SURE!!!

 

[V40]

I was reading a reference book on the Mk. II Body this evening and here is what I found out. If this has already been mentioned, please forgive me for boring all of you.

The practice bodies used the Mk. II body with all inside explosives removed. Sometime ago the the fuze used, initially was a standard Mk. II style with a No. 6 commercial detonator. It could also be found with a M5 detonating fuze. With the Mk. II fuze mechanism being really obsolete at the beginings of WWII. Therefore, using the Mk. II fuze in the body was a way to use them all up. The fuze I mean. The body was not closed by either a filling plug or a cork. The detonation of the fuze caused a very sharp crack along with smoke.

Once the fuzes (Ml. II & M5) were used up they then used either the M10, M10A1, or the M10A3 fuzes. With these fuzes (Igniting fuzes) a small charge of black powder was wrapped in either cloth or a paper tube and inserted through the bottom hole; with that being said the hole on these fuzes were corked up so that they could get a somewhat loud pop and smoke to indicate to everyone that it indeed had gone off.

As we all know by now, the body was painted a light blue. It also may have a letter or symbol molded into the body indicating who the manufacturer was. The safety "spoon" was also normally stamped with the fuze model, manufacturers initials, and lot numbers.

The whole "Practice" Mk. II came loaded out of a box that held 24. The box was marked in in bold letters and clearly marked "PRACTICE Grenades" so that everybody could identify them as being so. The bodies were used over and over again with each shot followed up by looking at the body to make sure it wasn't damaged in which case they were discarded.

The Mk.2A1 served our forces from late WWII through the Korean War and into the begining stages of the Vietnam War. The body on this "Pineapple" had no hole in the bottom as in previous models. It has a closed bottom that was made during the manufacturing process. It is still, the body that is, made of Iron with the shape still the same. Initially the Mk. 2A1 used the M10A2 and A3 (igniter) with approximately 0.74 ounces of EC Blank Powder, double based. The filling was later changed from the EC Blank Powder to TNT 1.85 ounces worth which meant that it could have any one of the following fuzes: M6A4C, M204A1, or the M204A2 with a detonator in each fuze. This grenade is painted OD with a single yellow band around the top of the body and there should be markings on the Safety Lever (Spoon). These markings on the top of the spoon should be the following: Fuze designation, Manufacturers marking(s), lot number and the date of manufacturer. The body itself would usually have the manufacturers marking(s) cast into the side. The grenades were then placed into a wooden box which would contain 25 grenades packed in there own individual containers. The markings on the box are usually found with stock number, grenade designation, type of fuze used, quanity, Lot Number, Loading Date, Weight, and the size of the of the case itself.

The Mk. II Fragmentation grenade had the body changed from the Mk. II with the igniting fuze. This body which was grooved much more deeply, with the taper slightly less than the previous one (ie, earlier version). The bottom has a hole that is tapped with 3/8" tapered pipe threads which has a plug with outside thread made out of die cast, a screw essentually. Now it gets interesting. The color of the bodies made a transition from yellow to OD with the familiar yellow (small) band around the top of the body, sometime in 1943.

This all comes from a reference book that I have had for years now and that I had completely forgot about.


V40
Mark
"MACVSOG Living Historian"

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Great Mark, another loooong post, like the posts I make sometimes :wink:
Not boring at all, the more the merrier. Hope I do not bore anyone with this one.

What reference book is this you are quoting from?

It's interesting to me that it said the practice wooden cases or boxes contained only 24 practice grenades, yet a standard grenade wooden case or box for HE grenades was 25. I made a post earlier asking about WW2 practice grenades that has something to to with this fact http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/question-u-s-t76617.html?t=76617

I mention in one post there that I thought that there were 2 small cans one containing the corks, and one containing the small cloth packets that had black powder charges, included in each case of practice grenades. Also that practice grenades during WW2 did not come with the black powder packet sealed inside the grenade body with a cork and the "yellow varnish" sealant over cork.

I have once seen and examined these original WW2 cans with corks and black powder bags before, and from what I remember they looked the same as a regular M41 or M41A1 grenade can, but they were 1/2 the size.
This now makes sense if there were only 24 practice grenades per wooden case. This would leave room for the two 1/2 M41 cans that the corks and charge bags came in.

 

[dano1917]

(sorry...... I know I talk a lot!! here we go....)

Hi Dano,Thanks, that was some quick pics. You know Dano, you could Theoretically call you grenade an "M21" also. The darker blue "M21" I show above is the Exact same grenade body as yours, EXCEPT that it has a little darker blue color, and came in a 8-44 dated M41A1 grenade can that says "M21" on it.

Last few days I've been having a discussion about WW2 practice grenades with a friend and member here, and man, I will tell you, now all these "Crane" trainers, other blue trainers and M21's are making me NUTS!! There's another "C" trainer I saw just listed somewhere, and I also have a few pics saved of other "C" trainers.
But whats odd is my "C" in pics above has a threaded hole and was made to be used as a HE grenade, but has the same "anemic looking small frags" and same body shape that some have said "were only used for training bodies"

I have a Yellow MkII Crane marked "C" "27" that has lead plug, and it has a completely different shape than these "C" bodies You and I have shown.
So....there are at least two different body shapes for the Crane company grenades. Interesting........at lease to me :tinysmile_grin_t:

I think for sure now that the Crane company must have had some type of Gov. contract, or have been assigned to supply many practice grenades in the late war years. This is too much of a coincidence to see so many.

I wish there were some wartime records or paperwork that had more info about the Crane company and trainers, and also the drilling or reaming of threaded hole grenade bodies to make practice bodies.

BUT, I really wish someday that a few more WW2 dated M21 grenade cans WITH the original grenades that were inside surface and show up one day.
So far I have counted only three WW2 dated M21 cans that have been shown here, my two dated 8-44, and another dated 12-44, but just the can, no grenade was shown. The two grenades in my cans are a WWI body and a Crane body like yours. That does not tell much for research purposes really. :sad:

Steve, I have noticed the "C" trainers have been showing up wholesale metaphorically speaking. the market is getting flooded with them. Mass find? Dano

 

[V40]

Steve,

Sorry about that Steve.

Sometimes I also try and give a War story that pertains with the ordnance at hand. On this one, I didn't because it was very confusing to me and it wasn't used in any combat, so I digress.

I paraphrased the entries into my own words and/or rearanged them so that I wouldn't violate a copyright infringdment. The reference I was using is entitled "The Grenade Recognition Manual" By Darryl Lynn. Isn't he a member here? If so, I apoligize to you Sir for destroying your work.

I think that I will sit this one out because I am seriously long winded at times. And, Steve I may have taken away from what the original text was meant to be on some facts from his reference. So you might be right on your info and I am probably wrong at many times during my translation. Also Steve, I have not seen any long winded entries on your part buddy.

This could be true because it was late and I was getting real tired. So everyone here and participating in this thread, forgive me for any mistakes I may have done with my translation. :tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t4:

V40
"MACVSOG Living Historian"

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Steve,

Sorry about that Steve.

Sometimes I also try and give a War story that pertains with the ordnance at hand. On this one, I didn't because it was very confusing to me and it wasn't used in any combat, so I digress.

I paraphrased the entries into my own words and/or rearanged them so that I wouldn't violate a copyright infringdment. The reference I was using is entitled "The Grenade Recognition Manual" By Darryl Lynn. Isn't he a member here? If so, I apoligize to you Sir for destroying your work.

I think that I will sit this one out because I am seriously long winded at times. And, Steve I may have taken away from what the original text was meant to be on some facts from his reference. So you might be right on your info and I am probably wrong at many times during my translation. Also Steve, I have not seen any long winded entries on your part buddy.

This could be true because it was late and I was getting real tired. So everyone here and participating in this thread, forgive me for any mistakes I may have done with my translation. :tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t4:

V40
"MACVSOG Living Historian"

No problem, all is OK with me and your post, and war stories are fine with me also. But, You must not have seen or read many of my posts, I think "long winded" is my middle name. :tinysmile_cry_t2:

Thanks for the source, I do not have the Grenade Recognition Manual, but have heard it mentioned many times here.

I'm ready to sit something out too, but can't stop here. There is still much unknown info about WW2 blue practice grenades. There's been so many different threads, posts and opinions on these WW2 blue pineapples, it's crazy.

Eodtek just made another new thread... US MK II Practice vs M21 Practice and I think everyone should maybe post all info they find, any theories, pictures etc there. I've had a few ideas and theories about MkII vs M21 and blue trainers but seems their getting buried and lost, there in about 10 different threads.