Unknown Fuze??

[CultOfOne]

Does anyone know what this fuze may be? I don't have any measurements as the fuze is not yet in my possession.

The only possible Id I have is its a 'Neumann 1861' but I have been unable to verify or find any information about this.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Alpini]

it's a prussian Feldgranatzünder C/73 used in prussian lead coated shells (8 cm, 9cm, 12 cm, 15 cm)

 

[CultOfOne]

Thanks Alpini, do you know when the fuze dates from?

 

[Bellifortis]

As the model No. says : 1873. It's the second model developed for rifled guns and very rare outside germany. A nice find.
Bellifortis.

Thanks Alpini, do you know when the fuze dates from?

 

[sgdbdr]

Good evening,

Alpini, can you tell from which book you took the drawing an if it is available online ?

Regards,

S.

 

[Alpini]

you can download it from Google books: https://books.google.com/books/abou...t_in_der_Waf.html?id=MAYHAAAAQAAJ&redir_esc=y

Sadly it's in the typical bad quality...

 

[sgdbdr]

Alpini,


Thanks for the link, it lead to
"Leitfaden für den Unterricht in der Waffenlehre an den Königlichen Kriegschulen"

There is a problem, Google Books says there is no digital edition available...

Regards,

S.

 

[Alpini]

Then they have the same copyright rules in France like in Germany. I downloaded it from there using an US-Proxyserver. It's just always a game to find a proxy which is working well...

 

[sgdbdr]

Thanks !!!

I had no idea google books had different access rights depending of the country you read.
I tried with TOR, but I could only access to an "Adobe digital edition" version of the book.
I tried with a US proxy and I could download the book for free !!

It opens new horizons of search !!!

Regards,

S.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello Alpini,

And this one ? : http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/89771-unknown-German-19th-century-fuze

 

[Alpini]

hehe, already held this one in my hands. It's one of a prussian series of trial fuzes without safety pin which resulted in the C/80 fuze.

 

[no3nh4]

Hello,

You can download the book "Leitfaden für den Unterricht in der Waffenlehre an den Königlichen Kriegschulen" here:
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/9200143/BibliographicResource_2000069467036.html

In the left of page, click over "read" and download one pdf file with 66 megas of size.

Cheer

 

[nachtwuenscher]

hehe, already held this one in my hands. It's one of a prussian series of trial fuzes without safety pin which resulted in the C/80 fuze.

Here is another experimental missing link between c73 and c80 (on the left, the right one is a "standard" c73).

 

[nachtwuenscher]

To illustrate the development of prussian fuzes I recently arranged the following photo. In the top row you can see the impact fuzes (from left to right): c/61, verlängerte Zündvorrichtung, Feldgranatzünder c/73, a shorter version of c/73, two experimental c/73, a sectioned c/80, another c/80, and the c/82 impact fuze. This development resulted in Bolzenschraube 85 (@Alpini, please correct me if I'm wrong), the red item on the very bottom. The bottom row exhibits the time fuzes starting with "Richterscher Zeitzünder", an experimental fuze between Feldschrapnellzünder c/70 and c/73, Feldschrapnellzünder c/72, c/73, and c/83. On the right you can see Doppelzünder 86 (double effect fuze) combining the "benefits" of time and impact fuzes.

 

[Redmeer]

3rd C/73 is not experimental. Only fuze before C/80 is. Differences between same model of fuze were common in prussian army in this years. Same situation is with C/80 and 82 (differences in details, for example sice of bottom fire hole).

"Experimental" C/73 has a Bolzenschraube 70. If this fuze is 100% original (founded in this state) then it's in fact early C/73 with Bolzenschraube 70. If its not, its just mix of 2 various fuzes (its a common situation to find these kind of fuzes in pieces and many collectors tried to restore whole fuze from parts - thats why many "mixed" fuzes come from).

Gr.Z 84 still missing, as well as many versions of C/82 for bigger calibers, as well as Dopp.Z. 85

 

[nachtwuenscher]

Gr.Z 84 still missing, as well as many versions of C/82 for bigger calibers, as well as Dopp.Z. 85

Hi Redmeer, thanks for your input. Indeed there is something still missing -- thus I have to collect more and more and more. Nevertheless, some recent additions:

 

[nachtwuenscher]

3rd C/73 is not experimental. Only fuze before C/80 is. Differences between same model of fuze were common in prussian army in this years.

Hmm, this one on the other hand has some major differences compared to the standard c73. No hole for the Vorstecker and curious grooves at the top.


Nevertheless, for the Feldschrapnellzünder 73 in the second row you are right: It has written c/73 on it, the Bolzenschraube 70 is original. It shows the same rectangular gas hole as the c/70 (which is also missing in my collection)
And to add another rare specimen in the c73 field: A c/73 with Schließstück (thanks to Alpini for the ID).

 

[Redmeer]

I know about differences, but still, in my opinion, its C/73.

C/73 with Schliesstuck - never saw anything like that. What was the function of this? Dopp.Z. 85 and 88 looks familiar - correct me if Im wrong, but im almost sure those two were in my hands some time ago To add to discussion more heat, something from me - I didnt found any ID fot this fuze. For sure fuze is german, thread diameter is 45mm and is similat to Dopp.92 fuze family, but 3 rings and no model markings?



Kind of 92, only marking on bottom "15", dug up between shells fragments:

 

[nachtwuenscher]

Maybe we should start a new thread with "prussian oddities". Would be quite interesting. You are right with the DoppZ85 and 88 ;-). I don't have a clue concerning your items, although they would fit perfectly into my collection...
The "Schließstück" (according to @alpini) was used to shut the hole of the safety pin after the pin was thrown out, thus no sand can enter and block the fuze mechanism...

 

[Redmeer]

New informations about oddities will be a perfect addidtion to my book abour prussian fuzes. Digging in secrets of experimental models withour access to Berlin and Munchen archives is quite problematic