Unknown 'less lethal' cases with stepped rims

[reccetrooper]

Two different case types here, but both have the same external dimensions and a distinctive double diameter stepped rim.

The first case has a shotshell type primer cup, approx 4 3/4 inch external case length. Internal case length approx 110mm, and internal diameter is approx 36mm, too tight for any of the L series 37mm batons.

The second and third cases have a Starline *-* head-stamped .38 Short Colt case insert. Approx 4 3/4 inch external case length, but there appears to be a low pressure chamber in the case head and internal case length is approx 98mm. Internal diameter is again approx 36mm, too tight for any of the L series 37mm batons.

I suspect they are irritant cases, but why the stepped rim? The vendor thought they may have come from a Proof house. Does anyone know what these are?

 

[reccetrooper]

Anyone have any idea? The case rim is very distinctive.

 

[copdoc]

Free bump to the top because that is interesting.

What does the inside of the cases look like?

 

[reccetrooper]

Free bump to the top because that is interesting.
What does the inside of the cases look like?

Thank you. The inside is not easy to photograph, but here are the pictures with different amounts of light.

The first two photos are the case with the shotshell type primer, the other two photos are the case with the .38 insert, notice that the insert is not visible from inside the case, just a small vent hole.

 

[copdoc]

Interesting, I wondered it it had a black powder cup or was high/low pressure. It looks like maybe one of each. With the 38 insert I would expect this to be shooting a projectile. I'll ask some others if they have seen one and look at some reference cartridges. Maybe for a rubber training projectile. I think I have one of those and I think it is a bit smaller ID than the 37/38mm rds.

 

[copdoc]

I had the 40 mm not 37. It is smaller than standard 40 round. Tight fit in training case and way too loose in standard 40mm case. I'm not sure about the double step but yours could be for a reusable 37/38mm training round.

 

[copdoc]

Inside of case.

 

[reccetrooper]

Here are some regular British batons, from the early 1.5" rubber bullet, to the current 37mm Attenuating Energy Projectile (AEP) They are all too large to fit within these cases.
The internal diameter of the case measured with a vernier gauge is 36.4mm

 

[copdoc]

In US we have several different calibers all called 1.5" It would take a book to discuss the differences. Factory ammo may be labled 37/38mm but will not shoot in some 37mm guns.

Most law enforcement agencies have switched to 40mm but you still see some 37 and 38mm guns. The Webley/Federal labs and H&R lend lease guns are no longer used (Caliber 1.59/M8)

I measured some wooden baton rounds and it appears they would fit in your case. There is quite a bit of variability in wood projectiles, probably to take into account for hydration. Some of the rubber ones would, some would not. If you find a loaded round please let me know.

If you actually use riot agents it is better to buy gun and ammo from the same manufacturer as a system.

Hope you can see pic. Dial caliper is in inches.

I'm not sure why the pics get rotated or how to fix it.