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Unknown shell case can anyone help plz

C

Collectaria

New Member
Hi I have a large shell case Rim 165mm at top 115 - 110 mm (not completely round) Height 700mm markings at 12 o'clock 45 Gun V1 3 o'cock ICI S P2 6 o'clock 1940 CF and at 9 o'clock LOT 980 H6 the rim is groved finely and there is a small 64 at 9 o'clock any help would be appreciated

007.JPG
 
Looks like a nice 4.5" inch case

VI = Mark 6
1940 = date of manufacture.
ICI = manufactured by Imperial Chemical Industries
Lot 980 = the LOT Number allocated to that particular batch of rounds
CF = Cordite Filled.
64 = most likely an inspectors stamp of approval.

Not sure about the H6 though.


I think these are correct but I am sure the others who know a lot more than I, will amend any mistakes I have made.
 
Hi Collectaria Tim G will sort out the finer detail of the stamps I cannot help with.
In answer to your question it is most likely to have been from a 4.5 inch Anti-Aircraft gun as had it been of Naval origin it would have an "N" stamped on the base.
 
The case dimensions are 114X696R.

The Mark 6 case was used with the Ordnance, Q.F. 4-5-inch Mark II AA gun.

Projectile would have been HE or Shrapnel (S.A.P. projectiles were also issued to fire at naval targets for guns mounted near the coast)

Did the Marks I,III and IV naval guns use the same case?

Quatermass
 
My understanding is that the Naval guns, Mk1 and Mk3 used the same fixed ammunition as the Army, land based Mk2, 695mm case length. I have had cases with and without the N on them of this size. The Mk4 gun was a Navy weapon that used separate loading ammunition, case length 645mm, the top clearly is designed for a closing cup and no cut cases cut be mistaken for this beast. The post war Mk5 is of similar length but has the familiar circular screw type mouth for a closing cup/cap.
 
Vasco Da Gama said:
The Mk4 gun was a Navy weapon that used separate loading ammunition, case length 645mm, the top clearly is designed for a closing cup and no cut cases cut be mistaken for this beast. The post war Mk5 is of similar length but has the familiar circular screw type mouth for a closing cup/cap.
Click to expand...

A question: the current Mk 8 naval gun reverted to fixed ammo, and the complete examples I have seen also have a set of annular grooves around the case mouth, presumably acting as crimps to hold the shell into the case. Is there any difference in these annular grooves between the Mk 5 and Mk 8? I have heard that the ones for the Mk 5 form a screw-type spiral whereas the grooves for the Mk 8 are parallel, but I'd appreciate confirmation.
 
The Marks 5 and 6 had a screw thread and the shell bases were screwed into the case before loading, the same as the 5.25" AA gun.
The 4.5" Mark 8 is QF fixed and those are all cannelures for fixing the shell to the case. These are the toughest rounds to pull apart ever and breakdown machines sometimes break down due to the strain.
 
Thanks - that's news to me, I didn't realise that they had to physically screw the Mk 5/6 shells into the cases - how did they do that? I thought that the screw thread was for the casemouth cap and that the shell stayed separate from the case, but that the two were rammed together..

So I was right that the Mk 8 has grooves parallel to the case mouth rather than at an angle?
 
Tony Williams said:
A question: the current Mk 8 naval gun reverted to fixed ammo, and the complete examples I have seen also have a set of annular grooves around the case mouth, presumably acting as crimps to hold the shell into the case. Is there any difference in these annular grooves between the Mk 5 and Mk 8? I have heard that the ones for the Mk 5 form a screw-type spiral whereas the grooves for the Mk 8 are parallel, but I'd appreciate confirmation.
Click to expand...

The Mk 5 had a groove rolled into the case neck in the form of a screw thread. A tin/whitemetal cap was screwed into this thread to seal off the cordite. When fired the tin? cap melted as the projectile travelled up the bore and mixed with any copper deposits to prevent accumulative coppering of the bore. Some small spatters of the tin would be pressed hard against the base of the shell without completely melting, these were sometimes found on the upper deck if you fired into the wind. Most were no larger than 1 cm In diameter and very thin. The impression of the machining of the base of the shell was visible on one side.

The Mk 8 was a fixed round, case and projectile, and the neck was crimped into the cannelures around the shell. The crimp grooves were not in the form of a spiral or screw thread.

gravelbelly
 
Hi Have some info that may help for fixed Rounds

1 Have used a hand hydraulic breakdown machine for the MK 8 Rounds

2 We used a air compressor for the breakdown machine for the 3 " Rounds

3 Had a screw breakdown mechanism for 4" MK16 this was very very hard work to use


Steve Ex RNAD Trecwn
 
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