What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Unusal Mills Grenade Trainer

spotter

spotter

UBIQUE
Staff member
Premium Member
This unusal mills grenade was posted on warrelics forum.
The original poster kindly gave me permission to post it here
Has anyone seen one like this before and have further information ?

Edited text from original post

" Upon unscrewing the large round base, I realized the long rod in through the top was actually poking out of the base like a firing pin. There was a small metal plate screwed on to the bottom that allowed the pin to poke out. I noticed the base had a small ridge ring, in the rust, around the inner hole, and thought shell casing? I then thought British military would use a 303 cartridge. an empty 303 fit perfectly in the round base . The rod is under spring tension and secured with a lever handle. Once the handle is released rod would hammer down and fire the cartridge, I assume. I tried to put a handle on the grenade, but the length of the rod seems to stop the handle from coming off? The base cylinder does have vertical scratches in it, like it went up and down something?."

1591358178538-1588986529.jpg1591358240306956691148.jpg1591358291258-1940202.jpg1591358339587-162314488.jpg
 
the 2 screws look too modern for me is there a hole for the release of pressure in bottom cup if the modern cartridge fired just the primer
 
Overall it looks to be related to a design initiated in India whereby a replaceable smoke cartridge was screwed inside the training grenade which could be replaced after each throw.

Here's a photo.

The centrepiece is on the left and the smoke cartridge in the middle. Again this is a centrefire cartridge, but this grenade has a simple hammer on the striker and not a spike or cone.


Indian trainer.jpg
 
Last edited:
If I can see the front of the grenade in post #1 clearly it looks like FW - Frost and Woods who are Canadian Mills makers. So this may be a Canadian experimental design.

Questions. If it's a training grenade why no holes in the body and were Canadian training grenades blue or was that only from the 1960's? Does the white body help date it?
 
Last edited:
Millsman said:
Overall it looks to be related to a design initiated in India whereby a replaceable smoke cartridge was screwed inside the training grenade which could be replaced after each throw.
Click to expand...

Not Indian, the one in your possession was designed by a Polish chap as a training flash-bang modification to a No.36. A drawing attached.

I do not know what the item is under discussion in the original post, but a booby trap modification for use in snow might be a possibility. The long striker is there for a reason, and there might be a hole drilled through the very top of it.
 

Attachments

  • FB.jpg
    FB.jpg
    132.9 KB · Views: 52
Thanks Tom that's very interesting. I was told it was Indian when I bought it and assumed it was a next generation on from the IP No 5 which held a smoke charge. I'd not had time to research it.

When I bought it it had a label attached stating "No 36 Practice Kula Exp" - Is that the Polish inventor? I've just looked up the Kula in Polish and it means 'Ball'

The front of the body is marked

W A
D

Lever is plain, no base plug as per the drawing.

Regarding the grenade in post #1, do you think it's Canadian?

If it's a booby trap, could it be used inverted, with the lever being stuck in the ground?
 
Last edited:
John,

The Kula Practice Grenade was proposed to meet a 1944 requirement by the RAF for a 'practice training' grenade. I believe that two versions were submitted by S.T.A.W. Ltd to the OB [Ordnance Board] along with a CEAD [Chief Engineer Armament Design] version.
 
There is indeed a hole at the top of the long pin. There is also the grove cut in for the lever and there is a tiny hole just below the lever slot. I thought maybe a ring or pin through the top hole to reset the device. It's pretty hard to reset without something to grab on to.
 
yes more likely some sort of boobytrap.theres not much chance of it landing on the striker end if thrown because of the weight from the 303 cartridge end would tend to make it land that way first
 
Bonnex said:
John,

The Kula Practice Grenade was proposed to meet a 1944 requirement by the RAF for a 'practice training' grenade. I believe that two versions were submitted by S.T.A.W. Ltd to the OB [Ordnance Board] along with a CEAD [Chief Engineer Armament Design] version.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Norman. Is Kula the designer's name ?

John
 
Millsman said:
Thanks very much Norman. Is Kula the designer's name ?

John
Click to expand...
John,

I came to that conclusion (hence the label) but I will try to find my notes on the item. If you look at the patents for Kula Grenade (Espace smart search) you will see that there is a Canadian connection.
 
Thanks Norman. I've not got past the mid 1930's on grenade patents so far.

I've not traced the Maker of the Kula - WA over a D, and I see it's unknown on Mills Bomber's website.

I think that it's likely the grenade in post #1 is probably linked to the Kula. As you say there was clearly more than one Polish person working on grenade design in Canada during the war. Perhaps a branch of the famous Polsten team?​
 
Looking at the components the only thing missing is the striker lever and pin.
The screwed cover with the firing pin hole would have to be removed for initial assembly.
The rod would have to be held further out of the grenade striker hole by compressing the spring and fitting the lever and pin,which would enable the plate with the firing pin hole to be screwed back. The plate would stay in position until the training was over and the item was cleaned.
The cartridge would be inserted and the holder screwed on for firing, which could be done repeatedly.
The rod would have to be pulled out against the spring to fit the lever and pin each time.
I had the idea that the rod would be dropped down a barrel ( possibly a made up barrel and stock if it is too big for a conventional rifle barrel), to give the firer a feel of firing a rifle grenade. The cartridge would vent out of the end of the screw adapter.
When the trainee was ready, a trainer would pull the pin with a lanyard.
Just a thought.
 
Last edited:
The only trouble I see with the set up is that it would be instantaneous, which wouldn't be much help for training. I would second the idea of a booby trap or possibly a bounding trainer.
 
AE501 said:
Looking at the components the only thing missing is the striker lever and pin.
The screwed cover with the firing pin hole would have to be removed for initial assembly.
The rod would have to be held further out of the grenade striker hole by compressing the spring and fitting the lever and pin,which would enable the plate with the firing pin hole to be screwed back. The plate would stay in position until the training was over and the item was cleaned.
The cartridge would be inserted and the holder screwed on for firing, which could be done repeatedly.
The rod would have to be pulled out against the spring to fit the lever and pin each time.
I had the idea that the rod would be dropped down a barrel ( possibly a made up barrel and stock if it is too big for a conventional rifle barrel), to give the firer a feel of firing a rifle grenade. The cartridge would vent out of the end of the screw adapter.
When the trainee was ready, a trainer would pull the pin with a lanyard.
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

The unknown factor here is the type of centrepiece fitted. If it's a normal centrepiece then as the head of the striker seems to be larger than normal it might have a very short travel if it rested in the normal place reserved for the anvil.

John
 
Millsman said:
The unknown factor here is the type of centrepiece fitted. If it's a normal centrepiece...

John
Click to expand...

Third photo of original post clearly shows it is a standard centrepiece, albeit punctured by a couple of self tappers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top