What are the best methods and materials for cleaning metals?

[HAZORD]

Guys,

A good number of you restore Ordnance, by removing rust and corrosion, etc. Taking in mind that most of these items are steel, aluminum, copper washed steel, some plastics, etc. What are the current methods you are using to remove corrosion without damaging the parent metal? Here in the U.S., there has been mention of using electrolysis with a lye solution to remove rust, specifically from Civil War cannon balls, and then putting them in distilled water to pull the salts out, if the ball was exposed to seawater. I've seen oxalic acid mentioned on this site for cleaning.

What methods and chemicals are you guys using, that doesn't destroy parent metal, plastics, etc.?

Thanks,

John

 

[staples57]

Evapo-Rust (www.evaporust.com)

In my opinion, it's the easiest, safest and most effective way I've found to remove rust. It's non-corrosive, has a neutral Ph, biodegradable, won't harm underlying metal, paint, plastic, etc. Check out their web-site for full information.

I've use it on helmets, bayonets, medals, grenade castings, etc. and had nothing but great results.

All you have to do is soak the item(s) in Evapo-Rust for anywhere from 30 minutes to 24 hours and the rust is gone. After soaking, I rinse and wipe-down the cleaned parts in hot water then then dry well. The solution can be reused over and over. I filter the use solution through a couple of coffee filters to remove any sediment.

In Canada, it's available at Lee Valley Tools... www.leevalley.com
In the UK, it's available at Technology Packaging Limited... +44 (0)1923 82 83 95 (Middlesex)
Check out their web-site for US distributors.

Here is a before and after example of an early Mills No.5 Lever cleaned using Evapo-Rust... (after a 4 hour soak)

 

[18pounder]

rust removal

aha youve just reminded me to buy some more!
I use Hammerite rust remover.
Its basically a dip that totally removes rust.
I use fine wire wools and wire brushes on less delicate objects that have no markings or original paint.

I dont use Hammerites 'cure-rust' as this just treats rust and turns it into a hard black inert base to paint over.
there are loads of posts on this site that discuss rust removal.
I havent used evaporust as I dont use enough to justify the cost,and I'm alittle cynical of massive claims and colourfull adverts.
Not saying it dont work,maybe I might try it one day!
Doug

 

[HAZORD]

Thanks Guys! So what are you using for brass cases, to take off the black or green from powder corrosion, or from being underwater?

John

 

[staples57]

For lightly tarnished brass... NEVR DULL
For more heavily tarnished brass... PEEK (great stuff!)

PEEK is also great for polishing all other metals and helps to stop corrosion & oxidation from returning.
Conservator's Wax (a.k.a. Restorer's Wax) is also highly recommended to protect metals and help stop corrosion & oxidation from returning.

 

[dano1917]

opinion only

I am not nor have I ever considered myself a purist. I think an old canon ball, shell projectile, grenade etc. is at its finest in true pure un cleaned form. A light cleaning of rust and abundant scale may be just the ticket, but when it comes to radical alteration, I am just totally against things of that sort. Hell, it took decades to put itself in that form, a form that can be destroyed in minutes. Think. There is nothing wrong with a finely restored piece and also nothing wrong with leaving a piece in its corroded form, a process that may have been decades in the making. It comes down to personal preferance. Myself, I like seeing a piece just as it was discovered without alteration in any form. At the very least take pictures during the transformation process so that it may be a matter of record. On one hand I have seen some beautifully restored pieces that would bring tears to ones eyes because the job was so well done. I have restored pieces, then there are the OTHERS, the ones that have true signifigant beauty untouched. It is in the eye of the beholder. and if just one life was affected by the line of horse crap I just laid out then it was all well worth while..Dano

 

[staples57]

dano1917, I agree. There are numerous pieces in my collection (the majority of my collection, actually) that will never be "restored". The "as found" condition of many artifacts / relics cannot be beat. It's part of our history.
The decision to restore an object is not an easy one (for me). Once you restore an object, you can't go back. For the most part, a simple cleaning is all that's necessary.
Rust and oxidization is a enemy that all collectors face. I'd love to find a way to simply stop rust and oxidization from progressing further.

 

[dano1917]

addition

Just to add a tad of additional information to my last addition to this well answered thread. Relic condition items are among my favorite. Aside from getting the general feeling that this p.iece was actually there, many times you can find out WHERE. When it comes right down to it areen't we really collecting history above all? It means a great deal to me if I can obtain during purchase just where a particular piece was found, which sector of line etc. The historical value of an item to me goes up many fold if I know where it came from. but that's me. Everybody is in this hobby for their own personal reasons. What ever be your reason(s) happy collecting and a healthy existance to you..Dano Also in an earlier post there was a restoration of a anti-personnal relic mine. In that case in my opinion the restoration was extremely well done and definately added to the historical signifigance. Great job. So see I am not hard and fast on my opinions and in many cases restoration is a very viable and historical signifigant addition to our awesomeoso bitchin' hobby

 

[CampX]

Here we have that old question, should we make older cannonball ect look new or leave them as we find them...it's always up to the owner...
I love cannonballs, and I have found a few over the years..I have decieded for my own collection, I want to get the heavy rust of them....if old iron has been in a damp area for many years, it is necessary to get the moisture out of the iron, or the ball willl continue to crumble.

For this type of solid iron balll, I gently hammer the rust off..then wire wheel the ball.
Then, I put the sollid iron ball iin the oven ( NOW THIS IS ONLY FOR SOLID SHOT!!!) at 200 degress for about 20 minutes, I tuurn the oven off and let the soliid ball cool in the oven for awhile....while it is stilll warm I oil, or wax the ball....sometime, depending on the contion of the ball alone...this drives the moisture out..and will stop further rusting and crumbling.

Balls found that have been is salt water for a long period require a lot more work.

For the past year and a half, II have been trying to save a very rare Bar Shot...the 2 balls are in very good shape, but had been in salt water since the mid 1700s...the balls are stilll in fresh water in a bucket...if I was to drop oone it would "crush"...once more of the salt has come out...I will try to save them through electolisis.

Dean

 

[HAZORD]

Dean,

I thought I would mention that one of the authors on American civil war cannonballs mentioned soaking cannonballs that had been exposed to salt water in distilled water, as the distilled water will pull the salt out. I'm not sure if you had heard of this technique or not.

John

 

[CampX]

Hazord, yup I have heard of that...but it takes a long time to get at least some of the salt out..and if the iron has been in salt water for 200 or more years..it will never all come out that way.


I have some very good friends in Sam and Wes at the Horse Soldier in Gettysburg..they have helped and put me in contact with many people who do this sort of thing ( one of the guys they put me in contact with used a piece of my collection in a referance book..not Ordanace related, as it is the only one known of it's type)

The problem I have with this barshot is I am a bit afraid to do anything more than soak for now..barshot is rare enough, however no one I have been in contact with has ever seen this type, and I cannot find anything like it on the internet...so as long as it is no longer falling apart while in water, I think I will leave it there....

This is one of those items that I may have to pay some bigs bucks to have it saved by a proffesional..and that will still take a long time and cost a lot.


But I think it worthwhile.


Thank you
Dean

 

[Weasel]

Hi CampX,
I would be very interested in any info you can give about removing salt from 100+ year old iron, as i have a few items that are in need of the same treatment. They are sat in fresh water and have been for quite a while now and will remain there until i can work out the best way to treat them.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[hicky1300]

Good question about the salt weasel. You can`t remove it!! Thats why the remainds of Mary Rose are kept under a wash system - but here`s the good news thats wood & you are on about iron.
You will not remove it completely (even with a good soak) but you can inert it or slow it down.
A soak/wash in any selenic acid based corrosion treatment will remove rust but also passivate the base material. Depending on the quality (purity of the base metal) will decide how well this works. After washing rinsing in hot water & then drying in a warm low humidity room helps (drying in an oven is a no no).
You may end up with a `blacking` finish but better than being kept under water I reckon!!
I used to dive on live stuff in the Channel & a few other places!! & anything we wanted to keep ( after making safe) we used to treat this way.

 

[E-tech]

Restoring or simply cleaning up an item that is relatively "new" doesn't seem to be too harmfull as a choice left to the collector, however, when dealing with the 100+ year old pieces of equipment, or just rare equipment still covered in the dried mud it was found embedded in- there is another aspect to consider- the "CSI" factor, if you will.
To one collector, brushing the mud/dirt/rust off/out of an item may make it more "presentable", but- if the item had been discovered in an "original" setting- battlefield, vessel, etc.- perhaps allowing the scientific/archeology branch of a local university to assist in the "cleaning up" would be a good idea?
Perhaps the "mud" has remnants/traces of tobacco used by the original operator? or residue of chemicals commonly found in the area- is the old crusted oil actually the oil from the factory, or motor oil applied by the soldier himself? Are the fibers on the bayonet from his hankerchief, or is there a chemical dye that would indicate an adversary uniform "donated" the thread? what of blood stains? could at least the blood type be found?

A "forensic" look at the dirt you are about to scrape away could tell you a great deal more about that object than it's serial number ever could.

 

[HAZORD]

E-tech,

A very interesting idea that you have proposed! Of course, the stories of indian graveyards being ransacked to obtain artifacts to sell to collectors are not only true but a crime in many ways. In order to do the research, people and money are required for the DNA processing, and some type of sponsor or benefactor would need to be found to fund the activities that you propose. Yes the information obtained could be very interesting, but due to lack of funding, if the activity you propose were inacted into law, then it would be illegal to do any recovery in any of the battlefields at all.

Currently in the U.S. it is illegal to use metal detectors in any of the civil war battlefield parks, and heaven forbid that you find any evidence pointing to any indian presence, because the Indian tribes demand that everything is turned over to them, where it will never be studied.

I guess one guy's rusty rifle is another man's research project.