Why is this shell still for sale?

[Notam2]

This shell has been in our local antique center for at least 6 months, I have almost come away with it in several occasions. I do know that this center has more than its share of military collectors, so what can they see that I cannot?
The label says WW1, its clearly not as the base is marked (1944). The projectile appears to be a shrapnel type. It has 105mm stamped around the bottom. Perhaps a (Howitzer). I suspect not a matched pair.
The question is, can it possibly be worth the asking price £85 and if so why has it been in stock so long?

 

[M8owner]

The case is for the US 105mm howitzer, and I believe that is a British 105mm HESH for the 105 tank cannon. They do not go together, but they are certainly worth 85 GBP - too me.

 

[Hoeksel]

I agree with M8owner. Over here they are actually MUCH cheaper than 85 GPB.

 

[Notam2]

The case is for the US 105mm howitzer, and I believe that is a British 105mm HESH for the 105 tank cannon. They do not go together, but they are certainly worth 85 GBP - too me.

I have looked at the HESH (now) and as you say it looks the same. Would it go with a longer tapered tank shell? Perhaps they are worth getting in case the correct parts turn up.
I could not possibly display them together as people would take grate delight in pointing out a mismatch.

 

[tigbrand]

Hi, bit pricey, 50 quid is about right. Its always tempting to buy "something" when there's not a lot around, that's why Iv'e got a shed full of crap!! Try a wanted ad on here for things your after, It works for me. :wink:

 

[HAZORD]

Actually, if you ignore the date on the case, it could be a proper round. The U.S. has a HEP-T round for the 105mm Howitzer. They are actually extremely hard to find in the U.S. and they date from the 1960s to maybe the 1980's. They use the standard M14 case, which hasn't changed since WWII. The Projectile looks U.S. as it has a closed nose (The UK ones I have seen have a plug in the nose). The rotating band looks exactly like a U.S. 105 Howitzer band. The projectile does not have a tank gun rotating band. The photo makes the projectile look a bit longer than usual, the length of the round was not given in the description, and the ID stamping in the body was not shown in the photos. A length for the round or the metal stamping would confirm an identification. To the right person in the U.S., if the projo is U.S., it could go for well over $100.00.

To answer your question, the store owner misidentified it along with almost everyone else that has seen it. Perhaps if you had fewer antigun and anti ordnance collecting laws, people would be better educated in the art of big bullets.

 

[Notam2]

Actually, if you ignore the date on the case, it could be a proper round. The U.S. has a HEP-T round for the 105mm Howitzer. They are actually extremely hard to find in the U.S. and they date from the 1960s to maybe the 1980's. They use the standard M14 case, which hasn't changed since WWII. The Projectile looks U.S. as it has a closed nose (The UK ones I have seen have a plug in the nose). The rotating band looks exactly like a U.S. 105 Howitzer band. The projectile does not have a tank gun rotating band. The photo makes the projectile look a bit longer than usual, the length of the round was not given in the description, and the ID stamping in the body was not shown in the photos. A length for the round or the metal stamping would confirm an identification. To the right person in the U.S., if the projo is U.S., it could go for well over $100.00.

To answer your question, the store owner misidentified it along with almost everyone else that has seen it. Perhaps if you had fewer antigun and anti ordnance collecting laws, people would be better educated in the art of big bullets.

I had nothing with me to measure it with unfortunately and the markings on the projectile need a clean, the only part that can be seen clearly is (105mm). I think £50 is the correct price. I cannot see the seller dropping from £85 to £50 especially when he thinks its WW1. It is the only item on in his section that is not a Turkish carpet.
Unfortunately someone will fall for it and give it pride of place on their hearth.

 

[HAZORD]

Why don't you point out to him that the case is marked 1944 and brush the rust off of the projectile so the moron can see the manufacturing date and model number? I hate idiots that have delusions of grandeur about their misidentified merchandise!

 

[Notam2]

Why don't you point out to him that the case is marked 1944 and brush the rust off of the projectile so the moron can see the manufacturing date and model number? I hate idiots that have delusions of grandeur about their misidentified merchandise![/QUOTE
The center manager was informed weeks ago and it was she that first suggested that the trade description act had been broken, however the label on it still says WW1.
Unfortunately the dealer in question is not resident at the center and staff cannot contact him because the item is less than £100. I think the best thing is to just avoid.

 

[flak18]

The fact that the dealer is wrong about the identity of the item does not make him either an idiot or a moron. His area of expertise is obviously in another field. As to the antigun and anti Ordnance laws in force, thankfully things are a little better under control over this side of the Atlantic. Think about it.

 

[HAZORD]

Well it is possible that the guy isn't an idiot or a moron. Perhaps he's a crook. Why else would he misrepresent something dated 1944 as WWI?

As far as laws go, it's all about freedom. People free to do things that are enjoyable without someone else getting involved and telling them they can't do it. California has all the laws and the highest crime rates. People are leaving that state in droves and have been for 30 years, to seek free states.

 

[flak18]

Totally agree with what you say about freedom, but it has to be tempered with some sensible, meaningful laws as well. California,,,,what has happened there maybe has a lot to do with the wealth that is involved in that particular State, but I don't know. I'm only an outsider looking at the way things are and am horrified by what I see on TV and also when I read the statistics on gun crime and accidents. But, you know what the real situation is and I must bow to your superior knowledge.
Regarding the dealer and his lack of historical knowledge, I'm afraid this is not too uncommon throughout the world. I know of quite a few people who think WW2 started in 1941 and WW1 in 1917. It's a sad indictment on modern life and lack of interest in the past.
Luckily there are people like us who take an interest and who desire to preserve and cherish what has gone before.
Keep up the good work. Sites like this must be made to flourish forever.

 

[pointblank0]

I had a 105mm HESH projectile only, VERY similar to the one shown here, (possibly even the same one as it was sold off a few years ago). I think I paid £15 for it at a car boot sale.

 

[Notam2]

Why don't you point out to him that the case is marked 1944 and brush the rust off of the projectile so the moron can see the manufacturing date and model number? I hate idiots that have delusions of grandeur about their misidentified merchandise!

I went back today and cleaned off the rust on the projectile and sure enough its a HESH dated 1978. I am struggling to see a WW1 connection. (still has WW1 on the label).
So 1944 case 1978 top. I have not said anything to the staff as I suspect I will be ridiculed as some type of anorak. Still worth £85 ?????

 

[tigbrand]

I have a Mint 1945 dated US 105mm case, original annealing and stencils to base, have tried to sell it for 3 years and cant even get 15 quid for it! 76mm,105mm and 120mm projectiles from what used to Royal ordnance are still around, I bought some at the Great Dorset steam fair minus paint as they had been burned to remove explosives for a tenner each. Carrying them a mile back to the car wasn't fun! Getting rid of them wasn't easy either. What are you looking to collect specifically,? if your a new collector i'm sure people on here can help you out if we know what your after. Not worth £85 quid! Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[Notam2]

My main pass time is precision shooting (SAKO Tikka T3) so I have an interest in anything that shoots. The guys at the range expect me to turn up occasionally with a conversation piece. Mines, Bombs, large shells, Mortars. I like to pick up things locally as the postage usually kills off the deal. (And the wife cannot find out what money you have spent).
I really would like a missile, the bigger the better. Let me know if you have anything of interest, has to be in striking distance of Lincoln though.

 

[HAZORD]

Great to hear that you are a precision shooter! I do that too! I just received my new Radar Chronograph yesterday!

 

[Notam2]

Great to hear that you are a precision shooter! I do that too! I just received my new Radar Chronograph yesterday!

Nice! which one did you get?

 

[Falcon]

I have a Mint 1945 dated US 105mm case, original annealing and stencils to base, have tried to sell it for 3 years and cant even get 15 quid for it! 76mm,105mm and 120mm projectiles from what used to Royal ordnance are still around, I bought some at the Great Dorset steam fair minus paint as they had been burned to remove explosives for a tenner each. Carrying them a mile back to the car wasn't fun! Getting rid of them wasn't easy either. What are you looking to collect specifically,? if your a new collector i'm sure people on here can help you out if we know what your after. Not worth £85 quid! Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

I have noticed that the bigger stuff can be difficult to sell, especially if it's non-British. Maybe it's a combination of potential buyers not having space to display it, and not being able to sneak it into the house past the wife.

 

[Notam2]

I have noticed that the bigger stuff can be difficult to sell, especially if it's non-British. Maybe it's a combination of potential buyers not having space to display it, and not being able to sneak it into the house past the wife.

I will go with the wife bit!!!!!!