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WWII German Ordnance still dangerous


I haven't posted much, So I hope this German ordnance article lands on some interested ears....theres also an element of humour to it as well.

I was recently documenting my collection, photos, markings etc, and in doing so very nearly created a situation where my WWII Tiger round killed my post war live \"mini\" Tiger. Whilst taking a photo, I knocked over a German 8,8cm Sprgr 43 HE onto my cat. Fortunately, with 1 life down, the cat got away unscathed...lucky critter.!!...although I think he's now suffering \"Tiger Fear\"

Here's a picture of some of my large German Rounds.
The rounds are Kwk42, Kwk43, Pak44, Kwk43 HE, Kwk36.

If anyone else has any German or other Odnance,....c'mon, post some pics....I did.
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Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Don't let Richard see these!
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Oh Man!:woohoo:
you can donate them to me if you want,to make you feel better after squashing the cat!:laugh:


Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

i very much love to see this kind of stuf esspecialy the panther item :woohoo: , but the team of this site was trying to set up a site of britisch ordnance, that's why i don't post any info of german stuf, because there is so little known about britisch stuf, and what is known, is not always reliable.
please don't see this as a attack, it's just a kind of compliment to the makers of this site, and again, i'm mad to see this kind of ordnance, very great stuff :woohoo:
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

I don't take this as an attack. This site is becomming an excellent resourse, especially for British ordnance..However, if you look at the home page desciption for the site, Ordnance of other nationalities is welcomed.

I realise I might be in the minority here, so I thought I'd test the forum's interest by posting some ordnance from the famous German equipment... Panthers & Tigers. I do have quite a bit more German Ordnance, which I can show if other people are interested,...but I'd love to see and discuss others Ordnance.......so come on, post
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

what i said, i love german ordnance most of all ( i think most of the world collectors do ), and the picture you posted is very very great.
:silly: :woohoo:
most of the info i have is also german.
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Ye know the problem, Brittish stuff, especially in a mint condition is rare to get and mostly very expensive. Most often parts are missing (inside fuze, smokebox, rubber bag above smoke ch.), and in contrast to german ammo they are very hard to get.. Next time I have some interesting WW2 British item , you're the first forum to see it.

By the way, you have a very fine collection of German shells. Must have cost a small fortune , especially the two KWK42 and the KWK43's .
Are you shure the 12,8cm shellcase is Pak? I think it is flak. If it's a Pak shellcase you have a small fortune in your hands, I've been lookig for a Pak44 shellcase for over 20 years and I never even heard of one being traded, let
alone offered.

Regards DJH
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Hi Pzgr40
:)...you've got me, you are absolutely correct, I think the 12,8cm Case is a FlaK 40 and not a Kwk82 (Jagdtiger), which I believe to be shorter. I left it in the photo to see if anyone would pick me up. I do have a \"spare\" 12,8cm Pzgr43 for swap for the Jagdtiger case. Its my understanding the 12,8cm Pzgr43 was only used in the Pak44 (PaK80) and L/55 Kwk82.

I still hold hope ill find the correct case, but for the moment. Ill leave in this case.

So come on everyone...post some German Ordnance.


oh..btw, I am aware it is two piece ammunition....and I know this because I have had to pick the damn stuff up...and you'd need biceps like a gorilla if it was single piece.
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

This is what it says on the Home page
\"Originaly developed for those interested in British ordnance ,now due to popular demand the site is now open to ordnance related posts of nationalities and all time periods\"
in other words get Posting folks
Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Do you have any details of the Pak44 (PaK 80) / Kwk82 Case. or 12,8cm cases in general. It's something i have little information on.

Does Anyone?

Re:Dangerous German cats still at large


I might retract my statement!.
I've scoured the internet, and determined that there were at least four 12,8cm Cases. Wherever possible, I've used German documents (not US).

These are the four i've found.

128 x 725(?)R - 12,8cm Kwk82 L/55 Jagdtiger
128 x 916R - 12,8cm K40 (Pz. Sfl)
128 x 958R - 12,8cm FlaK 40
128 x 962R - 12,8cm Pak44 (Pak80)

The case I have measures 962mm, so if my reasearch is correct, its a Pak80 case, from the gun shown below....but not a Jagdtiger, whose case is almost a foot shorter.

Can anyone confirm, please.

Re:Dangerous German cats still at large

Pzgr40, all,

Please read post above, but this is how I \"know\" the Jagdtiger case is shorter...and by measuring against my Kwk43 case, I can work out roughly its overall length.

Its also a great pic of large calibre ammunition. I'd love to know which museum this came from
This foto must be taken in the Panzermuseum in Munster. (northern part of germany between the cities bremen and hanover)


DM 53
Ok, I think my rant hid my real question...which is

Can anyone confirm my summary of the sizes of German WWII 12.8cm cases.

128 x 725(????)R - 12,8cm Kwk82 L/55 Jagdtiger
128 x 916R - 12,8cm K40 (Pz. Sfl)
128 x 958R - 12,8cm FlaK 40
128 x 962R - 12,8cm Pak44 (Pak80)

Ideally, I am trying to confirm the length of the jagtiger case, Can anyone confirm, please.
DM53, Rigby, all

As you know, I have been trying to find the length of the Jagdtiger case, but nobody seems to have pictures, drawings or photographs. what I have found out so far is the following from Rigby.

12,8cm Flak 40 - 962mm
12,8cm K40 (Pz.Sfl) - 916mm
12,8cm Pz.Sfl. - 826mm (not sure what this case is?? is this meant to be the Jagdtiger case?)

The photo from the Munster museum above shows a Jagdtiger case at just over 720mm, (when compared with the Kwk43 next to it) which would be none of those above.

Finally, I found this picture of a captured Jagtiger with two US soldiers holding a case infront of a Jagtiger. The case they are hold is clearly almost a meter long, and definitely NOT the same length the case in the Munster museum.

At this point, I am begginning to think the Jagdtiger case is 962mm long (assuming its the same length as the Flak 40. See Img below


I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but at this point, I do not believe that the Munster museum is showing a Jagtiger case. (Not sure what it is thou.)

If someone disagrees, Id love to discuss...all I want it the correct answer.?
This post is really directed to Wolfy, and I'm not sure if it is repeating what has gone before or not but I'll add my two pence worth anyway. Some years ago I sourced a 12.8cm case for a friend of mine. The case length is 962mm but the head diameter was 167mm. This was apparently one of three that were found together in one of the lakes in Europe.

Markings on the base are \"12,8cm St Flak40 awl 77 44\". I was told at the time that these cases were used in the Jagdtiger and anything longer was tough to manoeuvre inside the tank.

I also thought that the 12.8cm K40 Pz SF1 was a German experimental anti-tank round with measurements of 141mm (True bore) x 825mm.

The only solid detail I have is the case itself but I cannot get a picture I'm afraid. I'd be interested in any further comments from all.

I have to say, when I picked up the projectile and case, I didn't know enough about them, other than i might not come across another.
Unfortunately, the case headstamp is no longer readable, but its solid without splits or dents. It measures 128 x 962R (167 Base)

I am continuing to investigate further, but at this point, I still believe that the FlaK40 (962mm)and the PaK44 are different sizes.

Can you remember if there were any case numbers on the cases you came across...ie 6345 or 6311 or something else?

As for the \"JgdTiger\" Case in Münster museum...its not even the right diameter, let alone length to be a jagdtiger case...so who knows what that is..

Ill let you know if I find anything out, but if you can remember the case number, let me know