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Dopp.S. S/60*
- Thread starter Mrfuze
- Start date
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Beautiful Fuzes Erhard. In the first image is that an acorn at extreme right? Will you sectioned this one for us to see?
Regards,
John
Regards,
John
dano1917
RIP
Hi Erhard, Embarrasingly I ask what era is this fine fuze from. Thought i'd seen one before and someone had told me it was WW1 which was a big pill for me to swallow as it has that more streamlined WWII look to it. Your wares are among the finest posted on this site and any information you could provide on the origins of this fuze would be greatly appreciated. I have to ask even though I feel like a numb nuts even asking.....Dano
Hi Erhard,
Nice Fuze!
As you are aware, 99% of all German WW2 time fuses were mechanically driven and two types of mechanisms were used:
1) Spring-driven by the Krupp-Thiel mechanism;
2) Centrifugally driven by the Junghans mechanism and distinguished by adding "Fg" (Fliegewicht - flying weight) to the fuse markings as such:
"Dopp Z S/60 Fg"
Furthermore it seems that there are some variations of the Dopp Z S/60:
1) Dopp Z S/60 S
(Doppelzunder, 60 Sekunden mit Schlagzunderschraube)
Carried a spring-drive Krupp-Thiel clock running for a max. of 60 sec and graze percussion element
2) Dopp Z S/60 V
(Doppelzunder 60 Selundem Verreinfacht)
This was a Dopp Z S/60 with the nose cut flat and with a direct action percussion unit beneath, which on being struck released the timing unit's firing arm to fire the detonator
3) Dopp Z S/60 Fg
(Doppelzunder 60 Sekunden mit Fligewicht))
This was the smae as teh S/60 V with the substitution of the Junghans centrifugal mechanism for the Krupp-Thiel clock
4) Dopp Z S/60 Geb
(Doppelzunder 60 Sekunden fur Gebirgsgeschutze)
This was similar to the S/60 S but was slightly shorter and had a rounder tip - which was pinted blue
I'm wondering if the "*" is a short version stamping of one of the above suffix??? i.e. "*"="Fg"???
I have some other German fuses references which I'll go through and post back any findings!
Cheers
Drew
Nice Fuze!
As you are aware, 99% of all German WW2 time fuses were mechanically driven and two types of mechanisms were used:
1) Spring-driven by the Krupp-Thiel mechanism;
2) Centrifugally driven by the Junghans mechanism and distinguished by adding "Fg" (Fliegewicht - flying weight) to the fuse markings as such:
"Dopp Z S/60 Fg"
Furthermore it seems that there are some variations of the Dopp Z S/60:
1) Dopp Z S/60 S
(Doppelzunder, 60 Sekunden mit Schlagzunderschraube)
Carried a spring-drive Krupp-Thiel clock running for a max. of 60 sec and graze percussion element
2) Dopp Z S/60 V
(Doppelzunder 60 Selundem Verreinfacht)
This was a Dopp Z S/60 with the nose cut flat and with a direct action percussion unit beneath, which on being struck released the timing unit's firing arm to fire the detonator
3) Dopp Z S/60 Fg
(Doppelzunder 60 Sekunden mit Fligewicht))
This was the smae as teh S/60 V with the substitution of the Junghans centrifugal mechanism for the Krupp-Thiel clock
4) Dopp Z S/60 Geb
(Doppelzunder 60 Sekunden fur Gebirgsgeschutze)
This was similar to the S/60 S but was slightly shorter and had a rounder tip - which was pinted blue
I'm wondering if the "*" is a short version stamping of one of the above suffix??? i.e. "*"="Fg"???
I have some other German fuses references which I'll go through and post back any findings!
Cheers
Drew
Last edited:
Hi Erhard,
I found an example where the * is used:
"Bd Z 5103" {Bodenzunder 5103}
This was fitted with an extremely simple graze mechanism that was held in the safe position by a shear wire. A tracer was carried in the base.
"Bd Z 5103*" {Bodenzunder 5103*}
This, similar to the above but omitted the pyrotechnic delay unit that was fitted to the 5103.
I'm wondering if your "Dopp Z S/60*" has something omitted? i.e. does not have the simple percussion mechanism and hence just time only?
Interesting enough it has the "Zt" crossed out - since the Zeitzunder were pure mechanical time fuses to start with, it doesn't quite make sense re-stamping a "Zt" to a "Dopp Z" without adding the graze percussion element.....(Dopp Z = time + percussion)
Unless of course the "upgrade" of the Zt to the Dopp Z was purely to install a later version (?) of the Dopp Z Krupp-Thiel clock mechanism only and to indicate that no percussion element is present????
Interesting..
Cheers
Drew
I found an example where the * is used:
"Bd Z 5103" {Bodenzunder 5103}
This was fitted with an extremely simple graze mechanism that was held in the safe position by a shear wire. A tracer was carried in the base.
"Bd Z 5103*" {Bodenzunder 5103*}
This, similar to the above but omitted the pyrotechnic delay unit that was fitted to the 5103.
I'm wondering if your "Dopp Z S/60*" has something omitted? i.e. does not have the simple percussion mechanism and hence just time only?
Interesting enough it has the "Zt" crossed out - since the Zeitzunder were pure mechanical time fuses to start with, it doesn't quite make sense re-stamping a "Zt" to a "Dopp Z" without adding the graze percussion element.....(Dopp Z = time + percussion)
Unless of course the "upgrade" of the Zt to the Dopp Z was purely to install a later version (?) of the Dopp Z Krupp-Thiel clock mechanism only and to indicate that no percussion element is present????
Interesting..
Cheers
Drew
Last edited:
* examples
I known two other examples of the use of a * :
WW I : GrZ04* and LWMZ2*
The initial fuze mechanism was replaced by a long chemical delay system.
Yoda
I known two other examples of the use of a * :
WW I : GrZ04* and LWMZ2*
The initial fuze mechanism was replaced by a long chemical delay system.
Yoda
Hi Yoda,
You may be onto something here - combustion-time fuses (burning of a train of pyrotechnic composition) were exceptionally rare and the few that were used were introduced at the end of the war - owing to the shortage of mechanical fuses (i.e. the clock mechanisms)!!!!
Erhard,
You may have just scored yourself a rare one!
You'll just now have to disassemble it and prove this theory!
Cheers
Drew
Thanks for all
Hi Guys,
thanks for your response regarding this fuze.
I will take it apart in the next days/weks and see wif there are any modifications visible.
Some remarks towards the answers:
The Gr.A.04 and the L.WM.Z.2 and also an Z.s.u.W.M. with a "star" mark on top of the fuze cap indicated the sabotage long delay version of it. This was the only visible difference to the regular issued fuzes, which has nothing to do with the "*" on the WWII fuzes. The "star" mark behind the nomenclature ofthe German base fuzes indicates if the delay is pyrotechnical or being created by a vent system.
The brass Dopp.Z. S/60 here is made in the 30's , it is not WW I issued at all.
I will not make a cutaway out of it, I only do this on fuzes I have in spare!
Thanks to all, guess we will solve this one time!
Mrfuze, USA
Hi Guys,
thanks for your response regarding this fuze.
I will take it apart in the next days/weks and see wif there are any modifications visible.
Some remarks towards the answers:
The Gr.A.04 and the L.WM.Z.2 and also an Z.s.u.W.M. with a "star" mark on top of the fuze cap indicated the sabotage long delay version of it. This was the only visible difference to the regular issued fuzes, which has nothing to do with the "*" on the WWII fuzes. The "star" mark behind the nomenclature ofthe German base fuzes indicates if the delay is pyrotechnical or being created by a vent system.
The brass Dopp.Z. S/60 here is made in the 30's , it is not WW I issued at all.
I will not make a cutaway out of it, I only do this on fuzes I have in spare!
Thanks to all, guess we will solve this one time!
Mrfuze, USA