Panzerschreck rocket dimensions

[Grzesio]

Ok, it sounds silly, having in mind how common the rocket was, but it appears to be a surprisingly tricky question - what are the actual dimensions of the 8,8 cm RPzBGr 4322 rocket?

The rocket is most commonly described in books and EOD manuals as being 66 cm (sometimes 65 cm) long. But I've seen two original German drawings from 1943, where the length of the complete rocket is given as 702.2 mm and 703.2 mm (or 662.5 mm and 663.5 mm without the fuse respectively, in the latter case the body without fuse and fins is 658.5 mm long). When I compared these drawings with photos of the rockets, the real rockets seemed to be shorter than in these drawings, though.

Then, what is the warhead assembly length? Various German plans give its length as 307.5 mm or 308.5 mm without the fuse. But according to an Allied report on the Panzerblitz 2 rocket, where the warhead is precisely measured, it was 313 mm long (the difference is in the rear conical part).

So what is in reality? Wouldn't someone like just to measure an actual rocket, please?

 

[sgdbdr]

According to invenio RH 8/4931 page 4 ( https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/d2c84d13-b249-41f8-a2fa-9d47b717eca4/ ) it is 702,2mm

Cheers,

S.

 

[Grzesio]

Thank you, I know the drawing - the problem is. when you compare it with photos of real rockets, they are stubbier than in this drawing. Hence my question.

One of my comparisons with photos - drawing 702.2 mm long (upper), and drawing 660 mm long (lower). The real rockets seem to be 660 long.

 

[Irod7]

I don`t have a full rocket in my collection, but i have the motor tube.
The total length of the tube is 272mm (including the thread from the bottom, that the tail sheet metal screws on, and the thread that goes in the warhead).
The height without the warhead thread is 261mm.
Maybe this helps you with scaling the drawing.

 

[Grzesio]

Thank you very much!
In the image linked by sgdbdr the distance from the rear end of the combustion chamber wall to the rear end of the warhead appears to be ~311 mm, there's also a 4 mm high step between the combustion chamber and the warhead, so the outer wall of the combustion chamber is ~307 mm long.
So it seems, the engine was shortened by 46-50 mm at some point in 1943 and so the rocket was ąpproximately 655 mm long in its final form indeed.

 

[Irod7]

Unfortunately i can`t open the link to check myself (error 500).
But just as extra info, I also measured the distance on the inside of the motor.
From the bottom of the part (rear end of the motor) to the shoulder on the inside, my motor measures 246mm.

 

[Grzesio]

Here's the drawing with some my measurements.

 

[Alan1]

Good Evening, Grzesio.
Here is a pic of an original in my own collection. The fuze is dated 44.
If you will tell me precisely what you want me to measure I'll do my best. Be aware that some components will not be necessarily fully screwed home, giving a plus or minus of a mil or two.
Alan1.

 

[AKON_]

According to invenio RH 8/4931 page 18 it is L-698,2 mm
AkonView attachment 8,8cm RB _ RH_8_4931_0018.jpg

 

[Grzesio]

Good Evening, Grzesio.
Here is a pic of an original in my own collection. The fuze is dated 44.
If you will tell me precisely what you want me to measure I'll do my best. Be aware that some components will not be necessarily fully screwed home, giving a plus or minus of a mil or two.
Alan1.

Hello Alan,

Thank you very much, I'd be happy with the three dimensions marked in the attached drawing below (the tail section length being the least important).

According to invenio RH 8/4931 page 18 it is L-698,2 mm
AkonView attachment 208011

Thank you, I know the drawing too. The problem is, the real 8,8 cm RPzBGr 4322 is neither 702,2, nor 698,2 mm long (please note, the 698,2 mm in this drawing refers to the body of the rocket alone, with the drum stabilizer protruding another 5 mm to the rear, thus making the overall length as 703,2 mm). The actual rocket appears to be somewhere around 655-660 mm long.
So it seems, there had to be a design change somewhere around the mid 1943, shortening the 8,8 cm RPzBGr 4322 by some 45-50 mm.

My whole problem begun, where I stumbled upon these very two drawings in the BA. I was very happy at first, thinking I had a final confirmation of the rocket's dimensions. But I traced a rocket according to these dimensions, compared it with photos of actual rockets and then I realized, something is wrong with these drawings.

 

[AKON_]

Hello Alan,

Thank you very much, I'd be happy with the three dimensions marked in the attached drawing below (the tail section length being the least important).



Thank you, I know the drawing too. The problem is, the real 8,8 cm RPzBGr 4322 is neither 702,2, nor 698,2 mm long (please note, the 698,2 mm in this drawing refers to the body of the rocket alone, with the drum stabilizer protruding another 5 mm to the rear, thus making the overall length as 703,2 mm). The actual rocket appears to be somewhere around 655-660 mm long.
So it seems, there had to be a design change somewhere around the mid 1943, shortening the 8,8 cm RPzBGr 4322 by some 45-50 mm.

My whole problem begun, where I stumbled upon these very two drawings in the BA. I was very happy at first, thinking I had a final confirmation of the rocket's dimensions. But I traced a rocket according to these dimensions, compared it with photos of actual rockets and then I realized, something is wrong with these drawings.

Hi Grzesio
And what does it look like with the 8.8 cm RPzBGr 4320 version or 4329 Ex. version ?
It appears in one document source: Invenia exactly as 8.8cm .... 4320 Blind.
Regulation D 1864/2 (8,8cm 8.8 cm RPzBGr ....was approved (printed) on 4.November . 1943.
------
I have a drawing of this ammunition somewhere, drawn by the cz army after 1945 based on a real piece (delaboration)
------
There will be another production version, and it will be different for 8,8cm Pb 1 (judging by the drawing) used part of that warhead....
----..

Akon
8,8cm Pb 1:

 

[Grzesio]

I've once seen an incomplete Panzerschreck rocket, with a regular engine and fins, but there was only a long tube in place of a warhead - I suspect, it could be remains of the 4320 Bl. or 4329 Ex with outer warhead elements missing.
By the way, it's interesting that this 702.3 mm long rocket from Invenio was originally designated as the RPzBGr 8250 in the drawing of August 1943, later corrected to 4322. In the April 1943 drawing it's called P 88 n.A. On the other hand, early designation of the Panzerschreck was RPzB 6030.

I think, the Pb 1 and Pb 2 warhead was just a regular 8,8 cm Geschosskopf Ausf. B (the same as of the 4312, 4322 and 4992), just with an additional ogival fairing at the nose and conical or cylindrical fairing at the rear, matching it with the engine diameter of 81 or 55 mm, depending on the rocket. I've once made such comparisons of Pb 2 shapes (depending on the fairings installed) and different AT rockets.

 

[AKON_]

4322 View attachment 8,8cm RhB Gr.RH_8_1326_0197.jpg

 

[Grzesio]

4322 View attachment 208077

Just a modified variant with a base fuse.