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Police raid collector ?

Worcester News

THE man whose weapons collection was taken away by police after they raided his Worcester home is the chairman of a local gun club.
Graham Lane, aged 65, of Kilbury Drive, Worcester, was arrested on Monday and released on police bail yesterday after spending a night in the cells at Worcester Police Station.
We revealed in your Worcester News yesterday how he was arrested on suspicion of possession of an illegal firearm after police raided his semi-detached home in a quiet residential street, confiscating a massive haul of guns, cannons, rockets and ammunition.
No criminal charges have yet been brought against him. Mr Lane, a founder member of the Worcester Norton Shooting Club, told your Worcester News on his doorstep yesterday: “Everything they took away is licensed and lawful.
“I don’t wish to comment any further.”
Mr Lane, chairman of the club, was defended yesterday by an old friend who is also a founder member of the gun club, Terry Sims.
Mr Sims, who has known Mr Lane for between 35 and 40 years, helped found the club in March 1982.
He said of Mr Lane: “He’s a very upright, law-abiding member of the club. Everything he has done has been by the book. I have every faith in Graham. What he’s done is completely legal. All the club is behind him.
“He’s going to seek representation from one of the major shooting organisations – he’s still in discussions about which one. His place is an Aladdin’s Cave but everything is secured as per the policy of West Mercia Police.
“Police are doing their job but it took 10 hours to clean it out. It wasn’t done in a very diplomatic way and they didn’t put things back in the right place. This could happen to anyone in the gun club. I am quite confident he will be totally exonerated.”
Mr Sims said Mr Lane was an enthusiast about military history and said he was ‘a custodian’ of various military items and a skilled engineer who had managed to recreate a three quarter ton Napoleonic cannon, one of four confiscated in the raid.
The guns he said were mainly big game rifles and antique percussion rifles from the 1850s.
Mr Sims said the shells shown on the front page of yesterday’s Worcester News being carried away by officers were probably deactivated, He added: “They’re probably empty and would do you about as much damage as a banana.”
Mr Sims added: “He didn’t sleep at all. He is very tired and shaken up.”
Chief Inspector Jerry Reakes-Williams, of South Worcestershire Division of West Mercia Police, said: “A warrant was executed at an address in Kilbury Drive, Worcester, by officers acting on community intelligence received.
“A significant number of items were seized, many of which historic in nature. These items are now being examined but this process will take some time.
“Enquiries will continue into whether each of these items was being kept within the correct terms of a firearms licence.
“I would like to take this opportunity to stress that there is no danger to any member of the public in Kilbury Drive or the nearby residential area.”
They confirmed a man had been arrested in connection with the incident and released on police bail while enquiries continue.
 
Comment from paper reader that i thought was a good point;

"Oh and well done to the police for letting anyone who reads this paper know where a huge stash of guns including a tonne cannon is kept very smart. I feel sorry for the gun club member."
 
I wonder if a knock on the door by a couple of plain cloths Police, could have solved the issue? Or if he holds a firearms liciense maybe a visit to the house by his Firearms Officer could solve any issues. But as usual it's the media that have to stick their nose in.........
 
this is annoying as you can clearly see from the photo that the shells are inert its a total wast of time pepol do not see this sort of thing every day so maby someone saw a gun and called the police i hope he gets his collrction back
 
Disgraceful circus, reminds me of the raid on Mick Shephard who was an RFD, held on remand for 9 months and cleared of all charges. Im not sure he ever got his stuff back.

Seems to be the usual procedure, call in armed reponse, EOD etc. , maximum visibility, tip off the press, pose with the evidence etc. Should have been resolved by a private inspection leading to removal of any genuinely dubious items.
 
I think it's important to remember that the police involved in a raid, especially when as it's been mentioned that the tip off may have been something along the lines of "I saw <such and such> carrying guns and weapons", more than likely are not experts on ordnance identification and as such for safetys sake do confiscate everything visible whether inert or not.

I can understand that and believe that will always be the safest approach. When members on BOCN have asked questions in the past relating to dug up ordnance that they are unsure whether something is inert or not, the first cause of action we've suggested is to contact the Police.

Hopefully once investigated the man in question will receive his collection back but we certainly shouldn't paint the police force in a bad light when they're only doing what they think is best for the safety of the public (and the collector).

As it was mentioned, if anyone jumps the gun (no pun intended) and blows things out of perspective (again no pun intended) it's usually the press.
 
This is all very distressing and I feel sorry for the collector, but his situation might actually get worse. If the "historical items" removed included any wartime german memorabilia, the media will delight in labelling him as a nazi.

fred
 
smirky said:
Disgraceful circus, reminds me of the raid on Mick Shephard who was an RFD, held on remand for 9 months and cleared of all charges. Im not sure he ever got his stuff back.

Seems to be the usual procedure, call in armed reponse, EOD etc. , maximum visibility, tip off the press, pose with the evidence etc. Should have been resolved by a private inspection leading to removal of any genuinely dubious items.
Click to expand...

Spoke to Mick Shepard the other day and he still hasn't got all his collection back!

If people want to know more, it's all on his web site.
 
bolo said:
I think it's important to remember that the police involved in a raid, especially when as it's been mentioned that the tip off may have been something along the lines of "I saw <such and such> carrying guns and weapons", more than likely are not experts on ordnance identification and as such for safetys sake do confiscate everything visible whether inert or not.

I can understand that and believe that will always be the safest approach. When members on BOCN have asked questions in the past relating to dug up ordnance that they are unsure whether something is inert or not, the first cause of action we've suggested is to contact the Police.

Hopefully once investigated the man in question will receive his collection back but we certainly shouldn't paint the police force in a bad light when they're only doing what they think is best for the safety of the public (and the collector).

As it was mentioned, if anyone jumps the gun (no pun intended) and blows things out of perspective (again no pun intended) it's usually the press.
Click to expand...

I understand why the Police have to do what they do, but here they have asked for EOD to attend and EOD must have OK'd those shells as inert in order for the Police to carry them out of the place.

If those shells in the photo that are being carried by the 2 Policemen are live I'll give 100 to a charity of their choice.
 
If you understand that the Police do what they have to, then what is your point?

The police are not there to make a judgement, they are there to collect potential evidence. They collect all items identified as potentially related to an offense, as directed, and then let the investigators do their work. Whether the rounds are inert or not is irrelevant. As Bolo pointed out, the Police are not all specialists. The EOD people are not police officers. Each does their part, hopefully once investigated all turns out well in the end.

This plays on the fears that many collectors have, and many immediately blame the police. How many collectors instead have talked to the police in advance, explaining their collection? Possessing a relatively large collection, over the years I have repeatedly had local, county, State and Federal Officers to visit my collection, just to make sure that they are aware. I have spent hours talking the local fire department into visiting, so that they are comfortable as well. As a result, if someone passing by complains about seeing something, the authorities are already informed, saving both sides from unwanted hassle.

This approach may not work for everyone, but I am strongly in favor and believe that it greatly reduces events like the one in this thread.
 
US-Subs said:
If you understand that the Police do what they have to, then what is your point?

.
Click to expand...

My point is that if they are looking for an illegal firearm why are they taking away inert shells which are not illegal and not a firearm and if the Police were unable to work that out the EOD lads will have told them that they were shells and inert.
 
bolo said:
I think it's important to remember that the police involved in a raid, especially when as it's been mentioned that the tip off may have been something along the lines of "I saw <such and such> carrying guns and weapons", more than likely are not experts on ordnance identification and as such for safetys sake do confiscate everything visible whether inert or not.

I can understand that and believe that will always be the safest approach. When members on BOCN have asked questions in the past relating to dug up ordnance that they are unsure whether something is inert or not, the first cause of action we've suggested is to contact the Police.

Hopefully once investigated the man in question will receive his collection back but we certainly shouldn't paint the police force in a bad light when they're only doing what they think is best for the safety of the public (and the collector).

As it was mentioned, if anyone jumps the gun (no pun intended) and blows things out of perspective (again no pun intended) it's usually the press.
Click to expand...

Well put Bolo,
As mentioned if anyone shows or questions an object they suspect of being " Live " on the forum the first recourse is referral to the relevant authority.
And as you have said the Police and EOD are only following operational procedure and are not in anyway persecuting the collector.

Best Weasel.
 
pointblank0 said:
I heard that someone who had had there collection taken, all legit, was charged for something, the judge had said that he had had the appropriate knowledge to reactivat the ordnance if he wished and therefore authorised their disposal. Outragious
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That's the way it is in this country in 2010, punishment for thought crimes. How dare anyone have views or knowledge that is non-PC. I'm sure we all have kitchen knives in our houses. We all know that you could go out and stab someone with one. Does this mean that these should be confiscated and destroyed just in case we do decide to?

I'm sure they will find the collector in the article guilty of something as he is an easy target (opposed to a real criminal). Of course it also gets their statistics to look good.

As soon as I can afford it I'm leaving this country. I'm unsure where to go yet but there must be alot of better places than here.
 
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the crazy british law.

i was visited by the police about 5 years ago with a search warrant. i was arrested and taken to the police station while they searched my house for anything dodgy. they desided to evacuate everyone from my street for about 4 hours in case my house blew up! they found nothing, but desided to confiscate only my modern british practice grenades:tinysmile_angry2_t:???? everything else i was told was of no interest to them but all my modern brit grens were still the property of HM goverment and i would not be seeing them again. i was put on bail for 6 months after which they gave me everything back:tinysmile_fatgrin_t. what a waste of time and taxpayers money.
probably the same will happen in this chaps case.
cheers, paul.
 
This is obviously a very emotive subject within the membership and this situation plays on our darkest fears (big brother/Police state) but we have to accept that the Law is the Law. We are all Law abiding members of society and have to accept that this sort of incident is still rare in this Country fortunately. Yes certain elements (press) will blow this out of all proportion because it sells papers and whilst we understand what we are doing the general public don't.

The general public are bombarded by the press about bombs, terrorist's and the like so they can make money(they call it a public service) and while I dislike the way it was carried out and what may appear to be flimsy police intelligence, Bolo, US-Subs, Allan and others have said don't have anything you shouldn't have, make sure you are 100% legal and be sensible about your own security, don't have on show items that may be misconstrued by a passing member of the public into thinking you are the next big threat to society.

Lets all hope that this Nice gents nightmare is only short and he gets all his items back.

Richard
 
German conditions. Things like that are a daily occurrence. :tinysmile_angry_t:

Cheers

engineer
 
LCplCombat said:
I question why untrained police officers are handling live ordnance? Until the individual items have been checked by someone competent then the items shoud be considered live. Someone involved in the raid must have said "take that item" If that person was untrained in ordnance or EOD procedures he is in breach of his own authority and if it was an expert then judging by the manner in which the items are being handled then they know the items are safe. The officer in the picture with the round over his shoulder just needs to drop it on its fuze!.....
Click to expand...

Or on his foot LOL:tinysmile_hmm_t:
 
Falcon said:
That's the way it is in this country in 2010, punishment for thought crimes. How dare anyone have views or knowledge that is non-PC. I'm sure we all have kitchen knives in our houses. We all know that you could go out and stab someoine with one. Does this mean that these should be confiscated and destroyed just in case we do decide to?

I thought about handing all my knives in to save hassle but the practice run of chopping a watermelon in half using a spoon didn't go too well:tinysmile_grin_t:
Click to expand...
 
now its me!!

At work today,check phone, missed calls plus one text,please ring asap.So ring my parents house,informed by irate mum that the police have been and they had a warrant?? not sure as to wether this was for me or for the house! They explained to my mum that a parcel had been scanned at Bournemouth airport and EOD had been called. The item is an inert bofors L60 representative round bought on SA. They then mentioned that the item was safe and was legal to own,but were not approving off the method of delivery. They then left with my mobile no in hand, and were going to contact me later OR Monday. Unwilling to wait i unsuccessfully tried to find out more details myself,as the officers involved left no details,but to no avail. The officers involved were i believe polite and friendly,but i would have preffered to have sorted the matter out rather than waiting all weekend. I think for the trouble caused you can see why lots of countries dont allow shipping of ordnance. In future i think i will try and arrange meets at the shows etc rather than post. As for what remains of my collection,(50% sold in last 6 months) i have no worries as every item is 100% inert and fully strippable,no live primers,tracers or owt else. Will have to wait now and see if common sense prevails,which i think in most cases it does,will keep members posted,but whatever happens theres life after ammo,my downsize bought me a new toy which doesnt sit on the shelf collecting dust!! Tig
 
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